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My vocational counselor wants me to be trained on this due to hand injury on my last job
Submitted by trenasknife on Sat, 09/24/2005 - 02:07.
My workers comp voc counselor wants me trained on this due to my extensive clerical abilities prior to hand surgery last year that basically made my left thumb useless and partial loss of left index finger.
My questions to him was... "What employer would hire me and then let me install software on the company computer?" Also "What employer knowing what my job restrictions are would hire me as a clerical worker anyway?"
Job restrictions are no lifting over 17lbs, no word processing for more than 15 minutes in any hour, no grasping, pulling, or twisting with left hand.
Can this type software be used to enter data into a mainframe computer? Doesn't it interupt others in the office? If confidentiality was involved in the office setting, wouldn't this be a hinderence?
I would like any and all comments regarding this. I am not anti speech recognition. I just have never used it or have for that matter know anyone who has used or is using it.
Please help. Kim
Hi Kim. As the old saying
Hi Kim.
As the old saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
First option is to do what I do, and that's buy my own computer and take it with me. This isn't the perfect solution, obviously, since many employers (particularly those such as legal practitioners who are very heavily into word processing) use templates and or boiler plates, macros, merges etc which you'll have to either copy into your own machine or create your own.
If you are savvy with your own word processing package you can generally create a workaround for how to copy the work onto the employer's system for printing/ distribution.
Since you've mentioned loss of part of a finger then it would seem that your restrictions will not go away.
So another option is to change your keyboard.
http://www.maltron.com/
At this website there are a number of different keyboards available for people with differing degrees of disability. You may wish to consider using one of the keyboards for one hand.
That way, since it only has to plug into the office computer, any employer would probably have little or no objection to such a device being used.
Since it will be YOUR keyboard, you can take it home with you and practice your keyboarding skill to your heart's content.
Although I don't suffer any serious disability, in 1986 I chose to junk my QWERTY keyboard and go with the MALTRON two-hander. It was a decision I have never regretted for a moment. It took me about 6 weeks to get to about 15 wpm touch typing, while still not interfering with my QWERTY keyboard skills, and I've improved ever since.
If you are deadly serious about wordprocessing you may wish to consider becoming a "WordPerfect Demon".
This website
http://www.wpuniverse.com/
(WordPerfect Universe) is the equivalent of www.speechcomputing.com for WordPerfect users, and you can learn all sort of things, such as how to type in "shorthand", which will reduce (by up 60% if you're keen) the number of keystrokes you input. (MS WORD is very lacking in its ability to be "turbocharged").
Lastly, and since this IS a website about speech recognition, yes, it is possible to use speech recognition to enter data as you asked. Some versions of Dragon (can't speak for Via Voice) have a "numeric" function which would probably be useful to do this.
Whether SR will interrupt others is something that I couldn't answer fully. It depends on the layout of the office among other things. One trick I tried which might be of some use to you was using sound absorbing foam. I bought a piece of dense foam rubber which was "egg cartoned" in shape. About 18"x12". I cut in half and using "gaffer tape" I taped the two pieces back together so that I made a "book", which I could open and close and various angles. When I was using the SR I had this book open on the desk in front of the monitor, behind the keyboard, so that when I was speaking, my voice was being projected into the foam, which (hopefully) absorbed some of the sound. I never had any complaints from other workers in the office.
I think your problem is not insurmountable and I suppose it depends on how keen you are and how much $$$ you are prepared to spend.
I suppose if you can demonstrate to any potential employer that you are keen and savvy, they may even be keen themselves to employ you despite your injuries.
Good luck.
Joe
Thank you for all the
Thank you for all the information. I used to use WordPerfect exclusively until Word took over at my last employer. I haven't used it in probably 7 to 8 years now. I loved it before. You could do so much more with it.
Workers comp has to pay for all the equipment I would need.... perhaps they would spring for a new computer too...
The keyboard idea is not applicable. I have also had CT surgery on my right hand and any prolonged typing makes it so I have no strength in my hands for hours and then they swell. The surgery I had on my left hand was removal of the bone that connects the thumb to the wrist. Then they take a tendon out of the forearm and thread it around so supposedly its as good as new in all but about 10% of the patients. The tendon they removed was to my index finger. So now, I have limited use of it also.
I read somewhere else about the foam and will have to experiment with that at home.
Thank you again for all the information.
kim
Don't forget to get hardware
Don't forget to get hardware AND training. As a VAR that has provided training for many injured workers I can tell you it is important to get training and assistance in customizing Natspeak to work in your work environment.
tom
Dragon Reseller since 1989
I have a list started. I am
I have a list started. I am under the impression that they will supply me with a computer and accessories, software, and training. I am going to ask for top of the line and everything I can think of. Then we will go from there. I am going to push for a laptop with all the bells and whistles. In doing some research I did find out that Washington State (jobsite) has a cap on "pre-employment devices" of $4000.00. The computer I was looking at was almost $3000.00! It sure was pretty though. LOL
The college certificate program I was originally pushing for was only $1800.00 for supplies and everthing. I was leaning towards becoming a Phlebotomist, the course is only 5 months long. I worked in the medical field up until my last employer.
Now I am sure there will be more hurry up and wait. Do know of any trainers in The Eugene/Springfield area of Oregon? I think he thinks I am going to drive 150 miles each way to Portland daily for a couple weeks. NO
Kim
$3000 is way too much for a
$3000 is way too much for a decent PC. Aside from a monitor you can get all you need for $1000. If you need help with suggestions, let us know.
That leaves money for other, more critical needs. I agree with Tom W that competent training is very important if you want to get up to speed in the shortest time.
Bruce
I am sure it is way too
I am sure it is way too much. I am also sure they won't pay for it! I am going to try to get in touch with the voc guy tomorrow and talk to him about my discoveries. (I won't tell him I got most of my information and leads from this one site). I feel like I am getting pretty savvy on the basics of the system, thanks to everyone here.
I would appreciate suggestions on the hardware. I would like a pretty zoomy (technical word) pc, preferably a laptop. If I have to transport it I need it to be fairly lightweight. I don't want the freezing problems I have read about. What about an external soundcard for noise reduction?
My home computer is about a year and a half old and is decent for what I use it for, surfing. It is a Pentium IV 2.40GHz, 512mb RAM, with Windows XP Home, 2GB virtual memory. I would like it to be a bit faster than it is. I suppose I could break down and do away with the dial up ISP and go back to cable.
actually, your present
actually, your present computer with an additional 512 MB of RAM would probably work just fine. The microphone that comes with Dragon NaturallySpeaking professional is rather on the low end of ruggedness so we usually recommend a VXI TalkPro or TalkPro Max if you want to have a switch on the microphone cable.
a faster computer can help a little, but good speaking skills and good knowledge of NaturallySpeaking are probably more important.
Tom Westheimer
Dragon Reseller since 1989
So basically same
So basically same configuration but double the RAM. What about the soundcard and what type microphone do you suggest. I am doing a bit of research on a Sennheiser brand mirophone. Seems to get the best reviews.
as I said in my previous
as I said in my previous post: speaking clearly and correcting mistakes diligently is 99% of the job spending megabucks on a microphone IMHO is a big waste of money. Many people will probably disagree. if you think spending hundreds of dollars to get a very very very small and possibly nonexistent improvement in your accuracy and your vocational rehabilitation agency is willing to go for it why not?
we always want to solve our problems with technology instead of personal development etc. Speaking clearly is extremely important for good speech recognition and teaches us to be good public speakers too!
Dragon Reseller since 1989
I guess I am getting
I guess I am getting confused by all the differing opinions I have read from various websites. One recommends a "square" and the other recommends the "wheel". I have started to put together a table with all the different things I have learn this weekend and I will go from there. I had no idea the microphone was megabucks. I have only looked on an auction site at those. I am an auction addict lol
I believe what I am trying to do is personal development and I do not expect technology to do everything for me. The prospect of going to look for a new job at my age with my hand problems terrifys me.
Thanks for your advice, Kim
most people suggest a
most people suggest a creativelabs sound card. There is constant debate re using a usb sound pod vs a built in sound card and I come down on the KISS of the builtin sound card. once again the least expensive Creative card is fine as all the extras are not needed or desireable for DNS. A good VXI mic costs in the $ 60 range and the Senheisers that people say are better are in the $300-$500 though there are now some senheiser headsets in the $100+ range now too.
We have many successful "injured" customers and basically it is your personality, work skills-ethic and attitude that will make an employer see that hiring a experienced employee is worth a little disability issue. Good, hard working, smart, experienced employees are hard to come by and worth their weight in GOLD - IMHO
if you contact me off line I will send you a link to some dialoges re a discussion of mentioning or not mentioning your disability at the interview. t...@westheimers.net
Dragon Reseller since 1989
In view of Tom W's comment
In view of Tom W's comment about your present computer's adequacy, this is probably redundant but the last computer I bought was one of these (top left hand)
http://www.motium.com.au/
Very portable, but not as convenient as a laptop since it needs an external screen and keyboard.
If you check down the page a bit further, the little 7" screen is good for certain jobs (but it is hard to read the Dragon correction selections).
For cost, the computer is about $1300 Australian.
It may be possible to make up a case with every thing hard wired in place so just open the lid and you're away.
As far as using SR on it, it's been absolutely brilliant, with USB and non-USB mic's.
Joe
Kim, > I am not anti speech
Kim,
> I am not anti speech recognition. I just have never used it or have for
> that matter know anyone who has used or is using it.
The tone of your message sounds negative to me. If you would like to educate yourself and your vocational counselor on speech recognition, read the short article, "Key Steps to High Speech Recognition Accuracy." It is linked at the end of the sign off.
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
The best microphones for Speech Recognition
See us at: http://www.eMicrophones.com/index.asp
Read, "Key Steps to High Speech Recognition Accuracy" at:
http://www.emicrophones.com/docDetails.asp?DocumentID=38
Thank you for your reply and
Thank you for your reply and the info. I really didn't mean to sound negative (more nervous). I just really don't know anything about this kind of program and am afraid that they are going to train me on it and then say, "ok we're done".
I have been hassling with this workers comp "stuff" for almost 2 years now. First, they said that they would send me back to college for retraining and now they are pushing this software instead. I am not opposed to it - just don't know anything about it. I don't want to agree to it and then find out I can't get a job anywhere.
I am only 49 years old - so I still have a lot of work life in me and really want/need to go back to work. I have worked my entire life since 15 and now the kids are gone and its just me and hubby. I can’t watch anymore daytime tv!!!
Again thank you for the info. I will read and then copy it into my file I am compiling about this software.
trenasknife wrote:Can this
Can this type software be used to enter data into a mainframe computer?
Kim
Kim,
It seems that everyone has missed this part of your post.
First, when you say mainframe computer, do you really mean using speech on a mainframe computer?
Second, if so, then how do you intend to do this? The current retail speech recognition products do not work on mainframe computers, even though there are ways that this can be done. You have to start with a PC based system connected to a mainframe via a network or other hardware. Dragon NaturallySpeaking and ViaVoice, as well as MS Speech only run on PC systems.
More info is needed on this. However, if by "mainframe", you mean PC based network, then there is no problem. Still, need to understand the system on which you will be working directly.
Chuck
Thank you for your reply.
Thank you for your reply.
I have used a mainframe computer both ways but mostly a PC based network system.
I am a real novice. I still have not even seen this software so I am stabbing in the dark at this. I was assuming that it was only for word processing. Knowing that it can be used in other capacities eases my mind quite a bit.
The main problem I have is currently I am unemployed and they want to train me on this to get me back to work. So as a result, I have no idea what capacity I would be using it in. I am just thinking about all the ways I used my pc at my last job.
Is it compatible with Excel? I used to do many reports using graphs and charts. I used QuatroPro years ago but don't think I could easily remember it all.
Thanks again, Kim
As Chuck noted, we missed
As Chuck noted, we missed the specific environment in which you were working. We also missed, I think, the perspective of an SR (speech recognition) newbie with very uncertain employment prospects.
SR software is very powerful -- you can dictate text and control many apsects of your PC with it. In fact, almost anything you do with the keyboard can, at least in principle, be done via voice. Dictation in supported applications works very well. Command and control are a little trickier but possible. Mouse control is also possible, although a bit clunkier.
There are some drawbacks to SR, but there are also some compensations -- for example, you don't have to worry about spelling any longer
You will also probably learn to work more efficiently than you have previously -- the old saw about necessity being the mother of invention: SR users are necessarily very inventive.
Go ahead and take the SR training offered you with the knowledge that some quadriplegic users make do with it, although they do need some external help here and there. And with the knowledge that there is a large, supportive community of users here to help out.
Bruce
trenasknife wrote:Thank you
Thank you for your reply.
Is it compatible with Excel? I used to do many reports using graphs and charts. I used QuatroPro years ago but don't think I could easily remember it all.
Thanks again, Kim
Kim,
Yes, it is compatible with Microsoft Excel. However, there are some caveats.
First, there are an extensive number of commands that can assist you in Microsoft Excel. However, it does take some getting used to with regard to both learning the commands that are available and with regard to some minor issues when dictating into cells.
Second, if you get Dragon NaturallySpeaking® Professional, there are ways of creating macros and saving them as add-ins so that they can be available in any spreadsheet and executed very quickly by creating Advanced Scripting voice commands. On the other hand, if you are only able to acquire Dragon NaturallySpeaking® Preferred, the Advanced Scripting capability is not available in this version. However, there are some very good people out here on this site that can help you with implementing a program which can add scripting capabilities to Dragon NaturallySpeaking® Preferred. I'll leave the explanation of that to Scott Weinstein and others who use it on a regular basis, and who can and will provide some very helpful support on implementing such.
Lastly, don't be discouraged by circumstances where speech recognition doesn't always work exactly as needed or desired. There are many workarounds and many good solutions to some of these problems. The only thing that you need to understand is that speech recognition is designed primarily for dictation into text editors, or into applications that use text edit or rich text edit controls. As you go along, you will understand what this means, so I won't explain it in detail.
The thing to do is to get started. Like learning to ride a bicycle or to drive a car, there is a learning curve and there are things that you need to do and understand when learning how to use speech recognition. However, the most important thing that you can do for yourself is to get started. Having been an expert in this area for over 8 years, I can tell you from experience that once you become accustomed to and proficient with speech recognition, you will find that it is most productive and many times faster than typing, not to mention the fact that it can significantly reduce physical stress for those who suffer from RSI or other types of injuries that limit the use of hands and arms. There are many, many users out there who are in the same boat as you are. In addition, there are many users out there with the same problems that you have who are involved in very productive professions as editors and writers, some of whom are fairly well known professionally.
I have yet to find a situation or circumstance where I cannot make speech recognition work. Sometimes it takes some effort, sometimes the solution comes from others who use it in these circumstances regularly, sometimes it takes thinking about it and moving in a different direction. Nevertheless, speech recognition has come a long way in 8 years and you should not be either discouraged or overly anxious about learning and using it. Believe me, you won't regret it.
Chuck
In a matter of 16 hours, I
In a matter of 16 hours, I have gone from "I don't know if this will work for me" to "wow, this may be the answer to my problems". I would like to thank everyone who has posted and helped educate this novice.
I have been using computers for about 20 years...all self taught (for the most part) even my hunt and peck keyboarding. I believe that is mostly why I have ended up with the problems I have. I could type appx 55 wpm with very few mistakes. Drove my former employer nuts. He couldn't understand how I could type so fast using only two fingers from each hand.
I guess if I could teach myself the old dBase (glad I don't have to use that anymore), write and format safety manuals for a large corporation for 10 years with no training or real corporate experience, I can master this too. LOL
If you have any suggestions on the program that has the most capabilities, I would appreciate that. They are springing for the program, a new computer, and the training. I have no idea where I will end up as far as a job goes so I want all the bells and whistles, without being totally buried! I have been impressed by all the articles I have read about Dragon Naturally Speaking.
Thanks again everyone. Kim
trenasknife wrote:In a
In a matter of 16 hours, I have gone from "I don't know if this will work for me" to "wow, this may be the answer to my problems". I would like to thank everyone who has posted and helped educate this novice.
Glad we were here to help you! The people on here use Speech Recognition day in and day out. They know what's good, what works and what doesn't.
If you have any suggestions on the program that has the most capabilities, I would appreciate that. They are springing for the program, a new computer, and the training. I have no idea where I will end up as far as a job goes so I want all the bells and whistles, without being totally buried! I have been impressed by all the articles I have read about Dragon Naturally Speaking.
In my opinion, there are a couple of things not mentioned yet you should know about. So I'll take this opportunity to babble a bit.
Almost as important as the program is the input device. It sounds as if you would be able to use a good headset. Check Marty's site (http://www.emicrophones.com) for various ones. If he sells it, then it's a good microphone. He tests all of them and stands behind what he sells.
I would suggest you try to avoid microphones that are USB only. The reason is you are limited to that one microphone. I have two microphones that I use with an Andrea USB pod. Sometimes I use my Andrea ANC-600 and sometimes my Sennheiser ME-3. The Sennheiser is the better at noise rejection so I use it when I have my "wind tunnels" blowing to cool the place down. Other times when it's quiet, I may use the Andrea. Both are input thru the USB pod but I also have the option to go straight to the sound card. USB is generally cleaner input for me though. I guess what I'm saying is try to avoid being boxed in!
As far as the program, you'll probably get the most mileage from Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional edition. It has the ability to create macros that become spoken commands and is extensible via the Python language with add-ons. There are also a couple of macro packages that extend it without you doing a thing. Knowbrainer (requires professional version) is one of these. I've not used it, but many on here have.
There is another major player in SR programs and that's IBM's ViaVoice. It also does macros and works better than Dragon for many people. I don't believe it's as extensible as Dragon NatSpeak Pro though. We have people on here that use this also so perhaps they can add input.
Most of the programs today use natural speech. That's NOT conversational speech, but more like what a broadcaster sounds like (clear enunciation). There used to be a type called discrete speech, where you said words with a pause between them. The main program for this was Dragon Dictate but it's been replaced by Dragon NaturallySpeaking.
I've seen mention of programs that run on a PC, Exceed I think was the name, that will allow you to access a mainframe. I remember people mentioning they used this with Dragon to work on the mainframe and perform input.
As to computer. Get the fastest Intel processor you can get with at least 1gb (gigabyte) of ram. That allows you to run SR programs along with other programs with little to no worry about speed. Less memory can really slow you down. I used to use AMD but after a few problems I decided to stay with Intel processors.
You didn't say where you are, but if it's the United States employers are required as part of the ADA to provide "reasonable accomodations" to their employees. Something to keep in mind and discusss with your rehab counselors.
I'm going to shut up now.
I have found a wealth of
I have found a wealth of information on this site from all you people. You are all very generous. Thank you. I have checked out Marty's site and Knowbrainers. So much information to process.
I live in the pacific northwest. Ten days after I filed my workers comp claim I was fired for making 2 filing errors. I had never been fired from a job and had worked there just shy of 10 years. I had a new supervisor and he had been trying to get rid of me since he arrived. Glowing preformance appraislas for 7+ years then.....the worst PA's I have ever had. It was a very stressful situation. Plus I worked directly with the workers comp office, so when I filed the claim they were not too happy with me. I was the "Safety Goddess"...all the ergonomic plans and programs came from our office for the whole corporation. He would have gotten rid of me sooner but he had been at the Oregon Health and Safey Conference. The day he came back he started taking file by file out of my cabinets and wrote me up for 2 errors. I wouldn't acknowledge his complaints because I thought they were pety and knew this was "it" and after 1 hr and 45 minutes of badgering I was fired. I truely believe he was trying to make me cry and when I refused he got madder and madder.
The first few months was tough. Fired 2 weeks before Christmas to boot. Then after I came out of my depression I realized it was the best thing that could have happened. They had to hire 2 clerical workers to take my place and from what I understand it is still a big mess. I do find some satisfaction in that!
Then this surgery mess! Everything happens for a reason and there is something bright in my future.
Any other recommendations would be greatfully appreciated.
Thanks, Kim
trenasknife wrote:I have
I have found a wealth of information on this site from all you people. You are all very generous. Thank you. I have checked out Marty's site and Knowbrainers. So much information to process.
I live in the pacific northwest. Ten days after I filed my workers comp claim I was fired for making 2 filing errors. I had never been fired from a job and had worked there just shy of 10 years. I had a new supervisor and he had been trying to get rid of me since he arrived. Glowing preformance appraislas for 7+ years then.....the worst PA's I have ever had. It was a very stressful situation. Plus I worked directly with the workers comp office, so when I filed the claim they were not too happy with me. I was the "Safety Goddess"...all the ergonomic plans and programs came from our office for the whole corporation. He would have gotten rid of me sooner but he had been at the Oregon Health and Safey Conference. The day he came back he started taking file by file out of my cabinets and wrote me up for 2 errors. I wouldn't acknowledge his complaints because I thought they were pety and knew this was "it" and after 1 hr and 45 minutes of badgering I was fired. I truely believe he was trying to make me cry and when I refused he got madder and madder.
The first few months was tough. Fired 2 weeks before Christmas to boot. Then after I came out of my depression I realized it was the best thing that could have happened. They had to hire 2 clerical workers to take my place and from what I understand it is still a big mess. I do find some satisfaction in that!
Then this surgery mess! Everything happens for a reason and there is something bright in my future.
Any other recommendations would be greatfully appreciated.
Thanks, Kim
Kim,
I empathize with you. I have been down that road myself. Hang in there. I have worked with and/or kown many people who have been through similar experiences and similar physical issues. Some of these are surviving only because of Dragon NaturallySpeaking, and some have gone on to significant professional positions and national reputations because of SR. You should note this, that DNS v8 is 508 certified. Take a look at http://www.zephyr-tec.com/about_us/index.html. Renee was in your boat many years ago and cannot use her hands to type. The emphasis of her company is 508 and Dragon NaturallySpeaking. She is one of the best in the business with training people in your situation.
Chuck
Thank you. The website you
Thank you. The website you referred to is pack with information, although it doesn't seem to be updated recently. It is a shame her company is in California....maybe they will fly me down there. I am only next-door in Oregon. Probably too much to ask! lol
I am compiling all this information then I am going to organize it and present it to the voc rehab counselor.(I thought he was suppose to be doing all the leg work)
I am actually getting pretty excited about learning it and finally being able to go back to work after almost 2 years. No more daytime TV!!! yeah.
I am so glad I stumbled on this site last night.
Kim
That's crummy, but its not
That's crummy, but its not the first time we've heard that kind of story nor even the worst. Its so stupid -- you can't tell me that more than a tiny fraction of what we do and think shows a rational basis. The stupidest part is that you were probably a far more valuable employee than the hired gun they brought in to get rid of you. Of course, they don't really care about rational decision-making -- they just wanted to impress on the others what could happen if they don't toe the line.
But that's all past. With your skills and attitudes I think you have a wonderful future. It won't be easy, but its fortunate that SR has advanced to where it is.
Bruce
Thanks for your words of
Thanks for your words of incouragement. I will keep everyone informed of my progress, hopefully.
Kim
THE PLOT THICKENS.....I was
THE PLOT THICKENS.....I was talking to a friend yesterday about this program. He had been trained on it about 5 years ago. He is also the person who referred me to my workers comp attorney. He mentioned my voc counselors name. I told him he was the one pushing for this training and he was not on "my" side but my former employers. He then told me that my voc counselor had been his expert witness "against" the voice recogonition program at his workers comp hearing.
He is retired with a nice pension now. Don't get me wrong I need to go back to work. Sitting at home is not my idea of fun. It does make me wonder what is going through his brain though and from day one this software is all he has talked about.