Degraded performance - request for troubleshooting ideas

I've been using DNS medical for a couple of years on HP tablet (4400) running Windows XP, without any problems. Now in the past week or so, I've been noticing progressively downgraded performance: Long pauses before transcribing, missing the first sentence after I turn on the microphone, phrases coming out garbled, poor word recognition, failing to recognize commands, slow responding to keyboard commands.

I've tried shutting down and re-starting DNS, rebooting Windows, closing all other programs and freeing up more RAM on my system (now has 2000 mb). None of my other software is misbehaving. Virus scan negative.

Any other troubleshooting suggestions? Would be most grateful for any assistance.

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Version

Sorry, forgot to mention, I am using DNS 9.

Andrew

Possible hints

I think 9 and 10 can have the same problems. My thougts:

1. perform additional training (read one of the stories 1 minute)
2. start with new or with a previous exported user profile. You may want to export your vocabulary words before you do this.
3. repair your installation
4. check audio (your microphone)

I got similar problems and are fairly desperate about all these degradations of NatSpeak. I do not know how to reproduce things for reporting to Nuance. I have the constant feeling though that the program is not fully reliable, which is a shame after all these years of development.

Quintijn

(I am using versions 9 and 10)

Andrew wrote: in the past

Andrew wrote:

in the past week or so, I've been noticing progressively downgraded performance: Long pauses before transcribing, missing the first sentence after I turn on the microphone, phrases coming out garbled, poor word recognition, failing to recognize commands, slow responding to keyboard commands.

I think Quintijn's second suggestion is the most likely to help, creating a new user profile. Your current profile is likely choking.

One thing you should do is open the vocabulary editor by clicking the Words menu on the Dragon Bar, View/Edit, drop down the list at the bottom and select Custom words only. You will likely see many words added that do not belong in your vocabulary. You will need to remove them before exporting your words to a new user.

--
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.

exporting/importing words

Hi Martin,

Exporting the words to a text file and then cleaning in DragonPad or Notepad is probably easier to do. Before importing in the new (or previous exported) speech profile.

The question remains, why get speech profiles corrupted so often.

Quintijn

Quintijn wrote: Exporting

Quintijn wrote:

Exporting the words to a text file and then cleaning in DragonPad or Notepad is probably easier to do. Before importing in the new (or previous exported) speech profile.

That is a good idea in the case where someone has never cleaned out inappropriate words from their vocabulary. I had never thought of this before as I periodically clean out words from the vocabulary editor and it only takes a minute or two when you stay on top of it. According to Lunis Knowbrainer, if you disable Automatically add words to your vocabulary from the Tools menu, Options, Corrections tab, you will not have the problem of misspelled words added.

Quote:

The question remains, why get speech profiles corrupted so often.

I believe there are two reasons why a user profile becomes corrupted. The first reason is it just becomes too bloated from too much training, carelessly making corrections that are added to the vocabulary, adding way too many words, etc. We usually just do a very short training and add 20-100 typical documents not thousands.

The other reason is the process of recognizing one's speech and changing it to text is highly complex. Thousands and thousands of words and phrases are being analyzed every second. The load on the processor can occasionally cause a corruption in the information being written in and out of RAM and or on the hard disk. As computers have gotten faster over the years this has become a less and less prevalent problem. Also, we tend to not hear this problem for people who basically just use their computer for dictating and are careful in their procedures. The more programs you have open and working, the fewer resources for speech recognition are available.

--
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.

Martin Markoe wrote: I

Martin Markoe wrote:

I believe there are two reasons why a user profile becomes corrupted. The first reason is it just becomes too bloated from too much training, carelessly making corrections that are added to the vocabulary, adding way too many words, etc. We usually just do a very short training and add 20-100 typical documents not thousands.

So you disable automatic adding of words from corrections then?

Martin Markoe wrote:

Also, we tend to not hear this problem for people who basically just use their computer for dictating and are careful in their procedures. The more programs you have open and working, the fewer resources for speech recognition are available.

I did work very careful the last few weeks, concentrating on dictation (mainly Dutch speech profile). Within one week some of the "backspace xxx" commands were corrupted (this is worked-around in English, because the commands like "backspace eleven" are builtin as words and not as "backspace 11").

Large, fast Vista computer with 4 GB of memory.

I am using the USB2 Audio adapter with NC-181 microphone and the Pure Audio Andrea (mic and USB adapter combined) alternatively. Gives a lot of noise on the ear when playing back.

Quintijn

My DNS 9.5 profiles would

My DNS 9.5 profiles would sometimes become corrupted after a few weeks -- certain commands would stop being recognized.

I was never able to trace down the cause, though.

Chuck Runquist's picture

Corruption vs. Degradation

mdl,

In most cases like this it is virtually impossible to locate, understand, and correct the source of any problems without looking through the Dragon log. However, the Dragon log provides some information understandable by the average user, but most of the information is cryptic and relevant only to someone who understands what the various entries and errors actually mean.

The major problem here is that the use of the term corruption is too broad. To a programmer, corruption means damaged files, and file damage results in the inability to execute an application or read a data file. Unfortunately, because the term corruption is used too broadly to describe any number of circumstances, using the term "corrupted user" is not definitive enough, unless the user defines exactly what is occurring in terms of symptoms. A user profile is a collection of files. As long as the files themselves are in tact, the user file is usable even if the performance and accuracy have degraded. I would find it more useful, as a programmer, if these types of problems were defined as corruption (file damage) or user degradation (poor performance, poor accuracy, or failure of the program to execute properly as in the case of command failures). The reason that it's important to distinguish between the two is that resolving each one requires a different approach.

For example, if the DNS program files, or their related registry entries, become corrupted as defined above, then the program malfunctions, produces errors, or fails to load and run at all. In the case of user degradation, this normally refers to problems with the user profile itself. However, you can have a combination of problems wherein the program files or registry entries have problems running properly and the user profile, as a result, degrades in terms of speed, performance, or accuracy.

Fortunately, in this case the problem is user degradation as defined by Andrew. Unfortunately, because there are so many possible reasons for this occurring, the Dragon log is the only way that you can analyzing what is actually occurring. Otherwise you can spend forever trying to track down the cause without ever really finding a satisfactory solution. The most common solution that is posted is to create a new user. Granted, in some cases this may be necessary. However, in other cases it may not be necessary. Regardless, the Dragon log contains information that can discriminate and identify whether or not a particular procedure or solution is necessary or recommended.

What is known is that there are certain things (identifiable in the Dragon log) that can cause this to happen periodically. It is also well known that this is a typical problem with DNS 9-9.5.

The following are examples of "corruption" errors:

SDAPI Error 1: Error: [s:\mrec14\10820\mrecutil\realdf.cpp 2292 mrecutil\realdf 3] SDEnvHolder_Open:

SDAPI Error 1: Error: [s:\mrec15\11114\mrecutil\realdf.cpp 711 mrecutil\realdf 62] SDVoc_OpenGroup: .rbb E:\\current\General_\general.voc

SDAPI Error 1: Error: [s:\mrec15\11114\sdapi\apist.cpp 393 sdapi\apist 24] SDWord_GetName: SDhVoc 0x00000000ffffffff

COM returned an unexpected error: Details are E_FAIL

The vocabulary '' does not exist.

The vocabulary you have chosen ‘’ is incompatible or invalid.

When you see these types of errors, this means that your user profile is hosed and you generally have no alternative but to create a new user because your user profile cannot be loaded under these conditions.

In some cases, such as the E_FAIL, this can simply mean that you ran a repair (DNS 10 SP1) which restores your DNS program files to their original DNS 10.0 version and you simply need to reinstall the SP1 service pack. In the case of the two vocabulary errors (last two) these can either indicate data file or files are missing or that you have attempted to open a user profile that is not compatible with your current version of DNS. An example here would be attempting to open a DNS Medical user profile in DNS Professional, or attempting to open a DNS Professional user profile in DNS Preferred.

User profile performance degradation or loss of accuracy, on the other hand, is usually related to more than simply DNS. It's usually caused by a combination of Windows performance degradation, bloated registry entries, excessive file fragmentation, filesystem errors, the effect of the interaction between DNS and these types of issues, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseam. These types of issues are not easy to track and the Dragon log is the only way to locate the kind of information necessary in order to diagnose the problem and correct it.

A few final points.

DNS can handle what ever the number of words are in the Active Vocabulary. You cannot overload the vocabulary with an excessive number of words. When you reach the limit, DNS will longer allow you to enter words in the Active Vocabulary. Regardless, and even though it is advisable from time to time to clear out garbage from your custom word list, simply having a very large number of words in addition to the original default Active Vocabulary does not cause DNS to stop performing properly or result in accuracy degradation. What can happen is that you can have certain types of garbage words entered in the vocabulary that interfere with the proper recognition of other words because the underlying phonetic pronunciations in the lexicon may conflict. This can lead to a whole progression of accuracy issues. So, cleaning the garbage out of the custom words can, under some circumstances, fix the problem. Nevertheless, it's not a number of words in the Active Vocabulary it's the collection of words themselves in the custom vocabulary and whether or not any of those interfere with the correct recognition of other words. A very rough example would be something like setting the "Automatically add words to the vocabulary" to on (enabled) might result in adding "katt" to the vocabulary from someone's e-mail address (i.e., someone's name). However, because it's lowercase and because it has the same underlying pronunciation as "cat", this can result in a user every time that they dictate the word "cat" they end up getting the word "katt". An additional consequence may be that there is no adequate reference in the Language Model relative to what contexts are appropriate for "katt". If the word were capitalized (Katt) the consequent behavior relative to DNS recognition might be different. Now, before someone drives a nail into my heart based on this explanation, it's just an example for an analogy and reference. Nevertheless, it's that type of thing that can lead over a short period or along period to gradual accuracy degradation. So, view it as a concept or construct in terms of how accuracy degradation can build, not as an absolute. In other words, it's just an analogy.

As far as performance and speed are concerned, many of the problems that users experience in this regard are related to how well Windows is performing. For example, you can add RAM to your system to bring it up to 4 GB from let's say 1 GB and you notice an immediate improvement in the performance of DNS. Is it because DNS makes more effective use of the RAM or needs more ram, NO. It's because the performance of Windows is improved by adding more RAM, and as goes Windows, so goes DNS. If Windows slows down or starch performing in bizarre ways, then DNS will do the same or respond similarly.

The problem that Andrew is experiencing is not uncommon with regard to DNS 9-9.5. DNS 10-10.1 does not do this to the extent that it occurs in DNS 9.0-9.5. One of the reasons for this is that DNS 10-10.1 gets completely away from using supported processes (CPU) that aggravate latency issues. It also has a number of other performance tweaks that reduce the propensity for both degradation and corruption.

Lastly, a user profile that is used over a very long period of time can become "OLD". Seems like an odd thing to say, but what that basically means is that the user profile can become bloated with acoustic and language model information that simply begins to degrade the overall performance of that user. If you're using one of the Professional versions, you can resolve this issue relatively easy if you consistently export your "vocabulary" using the "Manage Vocabularies" feature. This preserves your current vocabulary (functional) such that when you create a new user you don't lose anything in terms of training, custom words, or properties settings. In addition, there are settings in the DNS Options dialog that can load your user profile over time by adding huge amounts of dra files (Options | Data tab | Advanced button | Always preserve wave data). These are stored in your user profile in the\voice_container\drafiles folder. Normally running the Acoustic and Language Model Optimizer reduces the number of files stored in this folder. However, not everything is eliminated and if you don't regularly run the Acoustic and Language Model Optimizer, you can end up with upwards of 15 or 20 GB of dra files. If you don't want to store the dra files or if you don't want to use the "Always preserve wave data", then you can enable the option "Conserve disk space required by user files (for portability)." This will tend to reduce the overall size of your user profile and can improve performance. There are any number of other options that you can elect or disable that can improve user performance. However, creating a new user will, unfortunately, always be the best way to return DNS to its original level of performance. Equally unfortunately that's not always a viable solution. However, there are ways of creating new users in such a way that you do not lose anything except the excessive bloat that can build up over time.

I hope that everyone finds this useful information. Unfortunately, this whole topic really requires an entire book and I've only provided you with two thirds of one. Jawdropping!

Chuck Runquist
GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training

It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to fifty words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese. - Carl Sagan (1934 - 1996)

Try a new vocabulary first

if I were you, I would export my custom words and then create a new vocabulary. When I am having problems with Dragon, this usually solves the problems. It's a lot quicker than creating a new user. if it doesn't work, then you can move on to creating the new user.

Try a new vocabulary first

if I were you, I would export my custom words and then create a new vocabulary. When I am having problems with Dragon, this usually solves the problems. It's a lot quicker than creating a new user. if it doesn't work, then you can move on to creating the new user.

Chuck Runquist wrote: Now,

Chuck Runquist wrote:

Now, before someone drives a nail into my heart based on this explanation, it's just an example for an analogy and reference. Nevertheless, it's that type of thing that can lead over a short period or along period to gradual accuracy degradation. So, view it as a concept or construct in terms of how accuracy degradation can build, not as an absolute. In other words, it's just an analogy.

Chuck Runquist
GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training)

Chuck,

Aw geez! Up until this point I thought this was a great, detailed discussion of the inner workings of DNS, and then you spoil it by calling it "just an analogy"!

If you don't mind, I'm going to consider it a detailed, factual delineation of how DNS works.

Bruce

Quintijn wrote: So you

Quintijn wrote:

So you disable automatic adding of words from corrections then?

Yes. If you carefully make corrections, you can save your user profile before closing Dragon and that will add the corrections.

Quote:

I am using the USB2 Audio adapter with NC-181 microphone and the Pure Audio Andrea (mic and USB adapter combined) alternatively. Gives a lot of noise on the ear when playing back.

Only a microphone can be noise canceling, not a USB adapter. The NC-181 is not highly noise canceling whether used with a separate USB Adapter or purchased with the USB adapter on the cable.

--
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
The best microphones for Speech Recognition
Read, "Key Steps to High Speech Reco

KnowBrainer's picture

SSD

Quote:

The question remains, why get speech profiles corrupted so often.

DNS user files are large and fragile. The vocabulary portion alone is huge and when you're dealing with a 7200 RPM hard drive and a read/record head, accidents (disruption of the iron oxide particles) are bound to happen sooner or later. User files can also be corrupted when the computer shuts down (perhaps unexpectedly) in the middle of a save or even System Restore. This is why we recommend storing user files on solid-state hard drives, thumb drives and making fairly frequent backup copies.

Lunis Orcutt - Developer of KnowBrainer
Host of the World's Top Speech Recognition Forum: http://www.knowbrainer.com/PubForum/
A Nuance Gold Certified/Endorsed Partner
ALWAYS Ask If Your Speech Recognition/Microphone Vendor Is Nuance Certified

KnowBrainer's picture

We Don't Recommend Repairing or Additional Training

We don't believe that repairing your installation is necessary because it appears to be working. In most instances, you would only perform a Repair of NaturallySpeaking if NaturallySpeaking failed to launch. There are a few instances where a DNS utility may malfunction such as the Vocabulary Editor or Command Browser but other than that, we wouldn't recommend Repairing. We DEFINITELY WOULDN'T recommend additional training at this point. In some situations we recommend one additional training but 99% of end-users should do very well with the short 7 minute training and in DNS 10.1, training is almost unnecessary. In most cases, more than 1 additional training will result in lowering accuracy rather than helping it.

We suspect that you are suffering from a bloated user profile and both Marty's and Quintijn's recommendation to delete the misspelled words from your vocabulary, export your vocabulary, create a new user profile and import your exported vocabulary are also what we would recommend.

Note that if you are using the microphone that was included with your box of software, it could be also be causing you problems but it should only be considered as a starter microphone at best. Anyone who uses speech recognition in the workplace should also use a professional soundcard & microphone. You can compare pricing, comfort, features and noise cancellation on numerous qualified speech recognition microphones in our Microphone Comparison Matrix. You might also take a look at what you're missing by not upgrading to the Dragon Medical 10 Upgrade. Our NaturallySpeaking NaturallySpeaking 10 Review includes a list of what you're missing including our 2 favorites:

1. The elimination of the miserable 3 to 5 second Results Box hang time (before your text appears in your document)

2. Numerous formatting fixes like the elimination of the unwanted extra space that appears in front of punctuation when you make a correction and non-capitalization after dictating a period or question-mark.

Lunis Orcutt - Developer of KnowBrainer
Host of the World's Top Speech Recognition Forum:
http://www.knowbrainer.com/PubForum/
A Nuance Gold Certified/Endorsed Partner
ALWAYS Ask If Your Speech Recognition/Microphone Vendor Is Nuance Certified

FWIW Re: user file

FWIW Re: user file corruption causes.

I don't have the wide experience with other SR users that the other two contributors have, but I don't give much credit to causal explanations based on hard drive or memory problems. But I do believe user habits based on faulty or deficient instructions from Nuance and mid-program shut downs can cause serious corruption. The only "proofs" I can adduce are anecdotal:

1. I rarely have user file corruption except following mid-program shut downs.

2. I used to a DNS user who had ECC memory yet still had frequent user file corruption -- that user was slovenly about knowledge of DNS's operations.

3. I use a lot of programs, some of which use as much memory as possible, and I don't have "random" bugs with these programs typical of the hard ware faults alleged to cause problems with DNS.

Bruce

The problem was the microphone

I want to thank everyone very much for the detailed advice. This is a really great forum.

At this point, it looks like my problem was the microphone. With a new mic the speech recognition is back to normal. I guess DNS must have been getting garbled input from my headset.

For the record, the microphone that's working is a Sony bidirectional mic, product number (I think) ECMMS907.

Why the headset crumped out all of a sudden I don't know, but with the better microphone I am actually getting far faster and more accurate transcription than I ever did before.

So far so good but I will monitor and re-post if the problem returns. Again, many thanks to those who offered their help!!

Andrew

Andrew, It's great to hear

Andrew,

It's great to hear that you've solved your problem, and it's equally great that you took the time to inform us how you solved it -- that information will be particularly helpful to anyone with a similar problem who may be searching for a solution in the future.

Bruce

Dan Lufkin's picture

Performance issues

Andrew, I see that your mike was the real culprit, but I'd like to add a note to Chuck's remark that registry bloat may be a contributing cause. I've found that flushing out my registry every week or so helps enormously to keep DNS (and other Windows apps) fast and bug-free. I've had excellent results with Glary Utilities (free download). RegCure seems to be more thorough and Uniblue SpeedUpMyPC is maybe a little too thorough (it cleans off your desktop down to the bare wood, so to speak).

admin's picture

Be careful what you let

Be careful what you let registry cleaners do. Glary seems good but there are some out there that remove EVERY USB DRIVER in the registry! Be sure you have a backup of your registry before you run one of these.

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