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Moving to the function bar in Excel 2007?
Submitted by mdl on Thu, 06/25/2009 - 23:57.
Does anyone know how to move the cursor to the function bar in Excel 2007 either via keyboard commands or a DNS natural command? I'm about ready to hardcode a mouse click, which will probably be quite fragile.  |
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mdl wrote: Does anyone know
Does anyone know how to move the cursor to the function bar in Excel 2007 either via keyboard commands or a DNS natural command?
I'm about ready to hardcode a mouse click, which will probably be quite fragile.
mdl,
There are two Microsoft Excel commands that are the same whether using Microsoft Excel 2007 or Excel 2003.
They are "create a function" or "create function". These are actually part of the same command which you can find in the Command Browser by searching on the filter "function".
Saying either of these forms of the command to place the cursor in the function bar, insert the =, and open the formula dialog.
Note that DNS has not always had as much support for Microsoft Excel as it did for Microsoft Word. Nevertheless, these commands are fairly functional. However, whenever you're looking for application-specific commands, use the Command Browser to see whether or not the application is supported (i.e., Natural Language Commands) and search through those commands. I believe that I saw commands that related to your chart issue there as well. It's a lot faster for you to look for them than it is to place a post on the forum. There are a lot of good Excel commands. I think you'll be rather surprised when you look through them.
Chuck Runquist
GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
The real problem is not whether machines think, but whether men do. - B.F. Skinner
I saw those functions when I
I saw those functions when I searched for DNS natural commands. they don't work on chart parts and they don't do what I want. I don't want to insert a formula, I want to go to the formula bar so I can edit or see what cells the formula uses (when your cursor is in the formula bar, Excel highlights in color each range used in that formula).
there doesn't appear to be any way to get to the function bar from that dialog box, alas.
The Excel Shortcut Key F2
The Excel Shortcut Key F2 will identify the ranges used in a particular formula (by coloured borders).
If you turn off Allow Editing Directly in Cells F2 will in addition place the cursor at the end of the formula in the Formula Bar.
See Excel Help on Keyboard Shortcuts.
Graham
www.itspeaking.co.uk
IT Speaking wrote: The Excel
The Excel Shortcut Key F2 will identify the ranges used in a particular formula (by coloured borders).
If you turn off Allow Editing Directly in Cells F2 will in addition place the cursor at the end of the formula in the Formula Bar.
See Excel Help on Keyboard Shortcuts.
Graham
www.itspeaking.co.uk
Graham,
Wow! You just taught me something I didn't even know. Thank you, profusely. That's a very useful setting in an Excel under some conditions and probably very useful for mdl.
Thank you.
Chuck Runquist
GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
Education is what survives when what has been learned has been forgotten. - B.F. Skinner (1904-1990)
IT Speaking wrote: The Excel
The Excel Shortcut Key F2 will identify the ranges used in a particular formula (by coloured borders).
Is there an option I need to turn on to make this work? When I
press F2 when a normal cell is selected, the cell turns light blue,
allowing me to edit it directly, but no ranges are identified.
If you turn off Allow Editing Directly in Cells F2 will in addition place the cursor at the end of the formula in the Formula Bar.
See Excel Help on Keyboard Shortcuts.
Graham
www.itspeaking.co.uk
I changed that option, but it didn't make any difference. I can still
edit directly in cells as far as I can tell. ?!?
Hitting F2, when a chart part is selected appears to do nothing.
(Excel 2007, Vista 32 bit, SP1)
Excel 2007 keeps turning
Excel 2007 keeps turning that option (allow editing) back on for some reason.
When on, typing new contents for a cell does move the cursor to the formula bar. it doesn't work for chart parts or viewing the ranges of an existing cell's contents as far as I can tell.
I get the same behavior in
I get the same behavior in Excel 2003 as in Excel 2007.
I think the person who wrote that keyboard shortcuts page was on crack.
mdl wrote: I get the same
I get the same behavior in Excel 2003 as in Excel 2007.
I think the person who wrote that keyboard shortcuts page was on crack.
Maybe you have some other Excel setting that's affecting your results. In Excel 2003, I follow Graham's directions and get exactly the results he describes -- F2 puts the insertion point in the function bar. And that is what the Help file says, and in my experience M$ is fairly competent in its Help file info.
Still, I can't definitively suggest why you aren't getting the normally expected outcomes.
Bruce
mdl I may have had a beer
mdl
I may have had a beer after work (as the UK is in the middle of a heatwave) but the shortcut works and has worked over (all) the years I've been training Excel in 2000, XP, 2007.
Unfortunately Nuance have seen fit to "subvert" this standard Microsoft shortcut key. If we had both read the DNS Help we would have known that F2 opens the cell for editing (as does saying "Edit Cell") rather than displaying the dependent ranges. Try it with Dragon closed!
My apologies for raising hopes.
Graham
IT Speaking
mdl
Unfortunately Nuance have seen fit to "subvert" this standard Microsoft shortcut key. If we had both read the DNS Help we would have known that F2 opens the cell for editing (as does saying "Edit Cell") rather than displaying the dependent ranges. Try it with Dragon closed!
My apologies for raising hopes.
Graham
Graham,
It does work for me with Microphone Off in Excel 2003 -- with the microphone off and pressing F2!
OK, here is a DNS script that works for me, so you will have to translate it to Vocola. The basic idea is to bring up the Insert...Function dialog and then cancel out until you wind up in the function bar with some function ("=TYPE()" on my system). Then you select all the text and delete it, hopefully leaving you in the function bar ready to do whatever you need to do.
Sub Main
SendKeys "+{F3}"
'Alternatively send: {Alt+i}f
' to bring up Insert...Function
SendKeys "%g"
' Just to move on...
SendKeys "{Enter 3}
' Keep on moving...
SendKeys "{Home}+{End}"
' Move Insertion Point before first entry and select to the end
SendKeys "{Delete}"
End Sub
Note on DNS usage:
+ = Shift
% = Alt
N.b., this works on my system as is, but Wait statements may be required on other systems.
HTH,
Bruce
Going to the function bar in Microsoft Excel by voice command
Bruce, Graham, mdl, et al.,
I had a thought that the same problem occurs in Excel as occurs in Microsoft Word. Nuance didn't do anything untoward with DNS, this particular problem has existed all along as far back as DNS 6.
What happens is that DNS apparently bypasses the options settings. God knows why, but the same thing occurs in Microsoft Word relative to things like curly quotes if you simply dictate "open quote" or "close quote". In this case, DNS completely bypasses the option to change standard quotes to smart quotes.
The key to figuring out how to write a script to move the cursor to the function bar required a little bit of experimentation, but realizing the above, I finally figured out how to write a very simple script that does exactly what MDL wants to do. Unfortunately, you would either have to translate it into Vocola and/or KnowBrainer if you don't have one of the Professional versions. However, here's the script:
Command name "go to function bar"
Sub MainSetMicrophone 0
Wait .1
SendSystemKeys "{F2}"
SetMicrophone 1
End Sub
Note that the wait states is absolutely necessary because you have to wait until the microphone is completely off before the execution of the SendSystemKeys will work properly.
You may have to change the wait state depending upon the speed of your system, but you should never have to set it higher than .5.
I can't guarantee that it will work for everyone, but it works on all of my systems. And, it works because it executes the function key F2 when the microphone is turned off. However, remember that the last command line in the code turns the microphone back on so anything you say will end up in the function bar. Therefore, pause before you dictate anything to make sure that you say what you want to go there or think about where you want to move through any particular formula.
The same capability might be applied to the chart issue. However, I haven't looked at that one yet so I don't know what the progression needs to be.
Regardless, this command code bypasses the need to go through any of the dialogs and puts you right in the function bar.
Try it out and let me know how it works and if or whether you have to make any changes to the way state depending upon your system configuration.
If you can leave it the way it is, it executes pretty much instantly. Also, that's setting the option in the Tools | Options | Edit tab | Edit directly in cell must be disabled in ordered for this command to work properly.
Chuck Runquist
GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
.. a computer is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things, while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do incredibly stupid things. They are, in short, a perfect match. ~Bill Bryson
Chuck, This script works --
Chuck,
This script works -- if you have turned the "F2 = edit cell" option off. The one I provided doesn't require you to any change in this setting or, SFAIK, any other Excel setting. It is neat that mdl now has at least two ways to get where he wants to go.
A third route would be through the built-in Excel API that goes to the function bar, but that requires more knowledge of the workings of Excel than we have, and it might not be transferable to Vocola (although it would be perfect for DNS scripting).
Bruce
Bruce, While it's true that
Bruce,
While it's true that you have to turn off the option to "Edit directly in cell," in order to use the script that I posted. If you're using DNS and you disable that option, then you get the best of both worlds. That is, if the microphone is on and you simply say "Press F2" that opens up editing in the currently focused cell. If you use the command that I provided, it puts the cursor in the function bar. In other words, it lets you do both types of editing depending upon whether you simply execute the function key F2 by voice or you use the command.
However, if you turn the microphone on and you use the keyboard to press the function key F2, then it opens editing in the cell and the cursor does not go automatically to the function bar and you have to click on the function bar with the mouse. So, there's a certain amount of "You can't have your cake and eat it too," but then it depends on what any particular user prefers. For those users who need to work hands-free because they don't have use of their hands, this can allow them to do editing both in cells and going directly to the function bar by voice depending upon whether they say "press F2" or they use the command. For those of the rest of us who aren't suffering from RSI and have full use of our arms and hands to use the keyboard and the mouse, it would depend on personal preference. That is, do you want to use the keyboard and mouse or do you want to use DNS. Regardless, it all hinges upon choice and whether or not you want to enable or disable the option "Edit directly in cell."
I also found another way of doing it but the syntax is so tricky that only those who fully understand how to use the old legacy dvc scripting language would understand how to set it up. So, I won't go there because the command that I wrote is the easiest and simplest one implement and, as you say, it works.
By the same token, I think that one of the reasons why NaturallySpeaking, for whatever reason, forces editing in the cell when just executing the function key F2 by voice when the microphone is turned on is because the only place that Select-and-Say is enabled in Microsoft Excel is when you are dictating into or editing in a cell. Select-and-Say is not enabled in the function bar. I'm not saying that that was either intentional or unintentional on the part of the developers, but that is the way that DNS works in Microsoft Excel.
Chuck Runquist
Owner, GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
"At times we shall simply have to admit that, one way or another, what we can neither explain nor understand certainly doesn't cease to exist because we cannot see how it does or why it should." - Dr. Mark Hyman
Chuck, The other problem
Chuck,
The other problem with your script is that it's slower than mine -- the Wait statements add a discernible slowdown on top of DNS's inherent lag before it operates on a command. For someone who is wheeling and dealing an Excel, this additional delay is a nuisance and drag.
BTW, I want to thank you for noting that I provided the outline for the script which you eventually wrote
Bruce
Bruce, I'm surprised. On my
Bruce,
I'm surprised. On my systems the cursor shows up in the function bar as soon as I issue the command. I have the wait state set just long enough to make sure that the microphone is turned off before it executes the function key. I don't see any lag at all. I issue the command and bingo, the cursor is flashing in the function bar.
Chuck Runquist
GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
"If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside." -- Robert X. Cringely
Chuck Runquist wrote: On my
On my systems the cursor shows up in the function bar as soon as I issue the command.
Chuck Runquist
GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
Chuck,
Unfortunately, you seem to be blessed with a system that's too fast for your own good
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: Chuck
On my systems the cursor shows up in the function bar as soon as I issue the command.
Chuck Runquist
GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
Chuck,
Unfortunately, you seem to be blessed with a system that's too fast for your own good
Bruce
I agree.
Bruce, I have to
Bruce,
I have to top-of-the-line systems, a Core2™ Extreme Quad Core QX9650 with 4 GB of RAM running Windows XP SP3, and my main system which is a Core™ i7 Intel 920 with 8 GB of RAM running Windows 7 RC Ultimate 64-bit. So, you could say that I have to fast machines.
Nevertheless, that shouldn't make any difference. The reason why is that my script only has four lines of code and only one of them is the command to press the function key. The other one simply turn the microphone off and back on again and awake state is set to the smallest possible time limit just to make sure that the microphone turns off before the "F2" key is pressed. There's nothing superduper about it. There's nothing complex than it, it should function like greased lightning on any system, even the slowest.
The only thing I can think of is that the problem you guys are having is not with the speed of the command itself, but with the fact that DNS is taking too long to recognize the command. I'm sure that the execution is virtually instantaneous, but of the recognition process is slow, then it will look like the command is slow.
Regardless, go figure!!!
Chuck Runquist
Owner, GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
"At times we shall simply have to admit that, one way or another, what we can neither explain nor understand certainly doesn't cease to exist because we cannot see how it does or why it should." - Dr. Mark Hyman
Chuck Runquist
Bruce,
I have to top-of-the-line systems, a Core2™ Extreme Quad Core QX9650 with 4 GB of RAM running Windows XP SP3, and my main system which is a Core™ i7 Intel 920 with 8 GB of RAM running Windows 7 RC Ultimate 64-bit. So, you could say that I have to fast machines.
Nevertheless, that shouldn't make any difference. The reason why is that my script only has four lines of code and only one of them is the command to press the function key. The other one simply turn the microphone off and back on again and awake state is set to the smallest possible time limit just to make sure that the microphone turns off before the "F2" key is pressed. There's nothing superduper about it. There's nothing complex than it, it should function like greased lightning on any system, even the slowest.
The only thing I can think of is that the problem you guys are having is not with the speed of the command itself, but with the fact that DNS is taking too long to recognize the command. I'm sure that the execution is virtually instantaneous, but of the recognition process is slow, then it will look like the command is slow.
Regardless, go figure!!!
Chuck Runquist
Owner, GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
"At times we shall simply have to admit that, one way or another, what we can neither explain nor understand certainly doesn't cease to exist because we cannot see how it does or why it should." - Dr. Mark Hyman
Chuck,
It's nice to have top-of-the-line gear for a number of reasons, but if someone were giving instructions to newbie SR users I should think they would want to have gear that mimics what their students are running on to maintain the authenticity of the didactic relationship.
On my system there is a perceptible difference between the speed of my command and your slower one. In any case, it's up to MDL or any other potential user to assess which one to use based on relevant criteria, such as speed of operation, side effects on usability (e.g., having to change Excel's normal settings), etc. For example, it could be that the user would use the command infrequently, so that side effects would be a bigger criteria than speed of operation. For me the double benefit of faster operation and fewer side effects would be definitive if I were still, as I once was, a heavy Excel user who needed this capability.
Bruce
Chuck Runquist wrote: I have
I have to top-of-the-line systems, a Core2™ Extreme Quad Core QX9650 with 4 GB of RAM running Windows XP SP3, and my main system which is a Core™ i7 Intel 920 with 8 GB of RAM running Windows 7 RC Ultimate 64-bit. So, you could say that I have to fast machines.
Remember - speed kills.
admin wrote: Remember -
Remember - speed kills.
...while it thrills and makes you forget!
Bruce
Awesome! The equivalent
Awesome! The equivalent Vocola command is:
formula bar = SetMicrophone(0) Wait(100) {F2} SetMicrophone(1);it works like a charm, even on chart parts. Thanks!
This script also erases the
This script also erases the contents of the formula bar, unfortunately. I suspect you could fix this with some work, though.
IT Speaking wrote: mdl I may
mdl
I may have had a beer after work (as the UK is in the middle of a heatwave) but the shortcut works and has worked over (all) the years I've been training Excel in 2000, XP, 2007.
Unfortunately Nuance have seen fit to "subvert" this standard Microsoft shortcut key. If we had both read the DNS Help we would have known that F2 opens the cell for editing (as does saying "Edit Cell") rather than displaying the dependent ranges. Try it with Dragon closed!
My apologies for raising hopes.
Graham
Graham,
you won't need a beer for this, although it may not hurt having one or two these days in some parts of Western Europe, but using the function key F2 built into Excel itself to put the active cell into full edit mode, at least going back to Excel 2002 as far as my knowledge, and even doing so just using the keyboard and leaving DNS completely out of the equation, has - or never should have - been a problem.
So why bother about DNS here?
Rüdiger
Thank you Graham; the
Thank you Graham; the possibility that DNS might be doing something so evil never occurred to me.
Chuck Runquist wrote: Note
Note that DNS has not always had as much support for Microsoft Excel as it did for Microsoft Word. Nevertheless, these commands are fairly functional. However, whenever you're looking for application-specific commands, use the Command Browser to see whether or not the application is supported (i.e., Natural Language Commands) and search through those commands. I believe that I saw commands that related to your chart issue there as well. It's a lot faster for you to look for them than it is to place a post on the forum. There are a lot of good Excel commands. I think you'll be rather surprised when you look through them.
I looked through the list quickly and with a few filter keywords (BTW, the browse mode of the Command Browser sucks for more than about 50 commands), but I didn't see any chart commands other than creating charts.
How would you go about setting the maximum value for the y-axis for a line chart? (Not expecting a single command, of course.)
mdl, I haven't done this
mdl,
I haven't done this kind of thing in a while, so it'll take me a little bit of time to refresh my memory on what commands work and don't work when working with charts.
Sorry, I thought you were just looking for a means to focus on the function bar. That's all those commands will do. However, I do remember working with charts and graphs and using DNS to do so. I'll just have to go back and play around a bit to see what I can dredge up from the depths of my Alzheimer's.
Chuck Runquist
GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
If the answer is wrong it is because the question was wrong. Unknown - ancient Chinese saying
An example of bad Excel 2007
An example of bad Excel 2007 support by DNS 10.1: try to select the chart title of a chart via voice.
I don't know how to do this using fewer than four verbal commands.
I don't but you might try
I don't but you might try positioning the cursor in the function bar area and clicking the mouse -- at least that's how I would do it with DNS scripting, and I would imagine you could do that in Vocola as well.
Bruce
DNS 10 Pref sp1 and IE8
What I am wondering is if anyone in the NatSpeak community is using IE8. If so, how? Nuance has yet to release an updated set of commands, so when you install IE8, the only commands available to you are the global commands.
I'm getting a bit desperate, because many of the programs I use now require IE8 to function. Further, I am finding that many web sites aren't bothering with backward compatibility, so an increasing number of sites are no longer working like they used to or simply crashing the browser.
I have several questions in regards to this dilemma:
1. Has anyone heard any rumors or definite statements from Nuance as to when such an update might be coming out?
2. Is it possible to write a Vocola command file to get IE8 to function like IE8 would from the keyboard and mouse?
3. If so, has anyone successfully tried such a venture?
4. If so, would that person (or persons) be willing to share what they have with the rest of the community?
DNS 10 SP1 does not support
DNS 10 SP1 does not support IE 8. You need to go up and download DNS 10.1. DNS 10.1 is a free upgrade and despite what you may read at the following URL, DNS 10.1 is perfectly compatible with all versions of Windows, XP, Vista, Windows 7, 32-bit and 64-bit.
DNS 10.1 has been available for almost 2 months as a download for DNS Preferred, Professional, and Standard. The issues relative to support for IE 8 have also been posted on numerous forums. So, you're a bit behind the times.
Nevertheless, go to the following Nuance webpage and follow the instructions for obtaining your copy of DNS 10.1. You do not need to worry about uninstalling DNS 10 SP1. Just installed DNS 10.1 right over top of your current version of DNS 10 SP1.
http://www.nuance.com/vista/naturallyspeaking/Drag...
Chuck Runquist
Owner, GEMCCON – The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training
Education is when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get if you don't. - Pete Seeger