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Browsing Firefox handsfree: which extension to use?
Submitted by Quintijn on Sun, 08/14/2005 - 14:44.
A few weeks ago I published some Dragon NaturallySpeaking macros for doing this (browsing hands-free in Firefox).
I made use of the Firefox extension "Hit-a-Hint". (see my webpage)
A week afterwards I found another Firefox extension, "Mouseless Browsing".
I tried to get this extension working with NatSpeak macros as well. I didn't succeed very well.
Maybe it is good to have some discussion here on what extension is favorable for hands-free browsing.
At this moment I see one important advantage for Hit-a-Hint: hints are placed "above" the page you are viewing, not disturbing the layout of the page.
Mouseless Browsing formats the hints after a hyperlink, which is very clear, but takes some space in the page.
It could be the best compromise to have textual hyperlinks done as in Mouseless Browsing, and have links for images floating in a corner of the image, like Hit-a-Hint.
Another issue is the interaction with other modes, mainly the automatic search mode. In my opinion it would be best if the keys that are to be received
by Hit-a-Hint or Mouseless Browsing were all "control" or "alt" keys, possibly from the numeric keypad.
And not to forget form fields. I didn't do much checking on this yet.
Hoping to start a discussion on this,
Greetings, Quintijn
There's a problem with Hit-a-Hint for me
If I have Hit-a-Hint loaded and enabled, it's not possible (that I could find) to type the space character in a Gmail message body. Works fine everywhere but there. If you disable Hit-a-Hint, it works. The bad part is that to disable to enable you have to exit and restart Firefox.
I've not attempted using it with SR as my version of DNS is too old. If you don't have Gmail and want an invitation to test it let me know.
Re: There's a problem with Hit-a-Hint for me
If I have Hit-a-Hint loaded and enabled, it's not possible (that I could find) to type the space character in a Gmail message body. Works fine everywhere but there.
The space bar is the "magic key" of Hit-a-Hint, this key can be altered to something else (Tools, Extensions, Options). I think an option of Hit-a-Hint should be to disable this magic key completely.
Quintijn
Mouseless Browsing in Firefox with ViaVoice
I note that in Help, there is a menu "keyboard shortcuts". This gives a full list of browsing short cuts, and these can be very easily be made into ViaVoice navigation commands.
To do this, print out the list of commands, select the ones that you want with the relevant keystrokes, and while you're in Firefox, create application macros for each. Do not forget to write out a list of the names of the macros that you are creating, with a short explanation of what each does. I have always found the easiest way to remember them is by applying them a number of times as soon as possible, but always keep the list readily to hand.
Quentin
Mouseless Browsing
So far I'm finding Mouseless Browsing extremely good (at least as a keyboard alternative to the mouse). I'm using it with Firefox 1.06. I'm not sure it was supposed to be (the description of what is required to download it was a little confulsing to me (Firefox: 0.9.x - Deer Park), but though it may be geared more to the new Beta (Deer Park), which will ultimately/soon become Firefox 1.5, it seems to be doing quite well with my Firefox 1.06. The reviews of it (from other users) are very good so far.
https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=879&application=fi...
From the keyboard, it just works (within Firefox) quite efficiently--is a delight. Now you have a "settings" option: (1) you can set it where you need to press "enter" after you type in the number (set to the link). Or (2) You can set it where you just type in the number (without needing to type "enter" and the link will open. .
I have it set the latter way. Even if you do that, sometimes on some pages, you still have to press "enter" after the number. So you have to be alert there. And get used to what the exceptional page requires.
If you're on a page where the numbers are going into some form, then you say, "control" before the number and that solves that. Initially, I'd be wondering how to get the link to open (as every time I typed a number, it was going into a form, eg., the zip code form on the weather page). Saying "control" before the number solved that problem.
If you say, alt. before the number, you open the link in a new tab.
This extension is, in my view, far superior to Hit a Link (which I downloaded and played with some months ago (unless the latter program has improved a lot since then). That program seemed much less stable/shakier for me. Also, the numbers on the page seem clearer with Mouseless Browsing, than with Hit a Link.
With Dragon (I have version 8, standard ed.), Mouseless Browsing seemed to work generally. I had some problems where Dragon didn't recognize higher numbers when I said them (particularly numbers over 100), or where Dragon seemed to overload (stopped being responsive, and I had to close it and open it). Maybe it was just having a shaky day. I've only been fiddling with this extension for a few days. And since it's so efficient from the Keyboard, it SHOULD work fine from Dragon (am I missing something here?), but I've probably overplayed with it from the keyboard (because I've enjoyed its facility there as an alternative to the mouse so much).
I'm going away for a few days, but when I test it again in Dragon, I may need to consult at this forum. In theory, if it's working great from the keyboard, it ought to work well, just saying "press" and the "number." No?
Query: why the need for Macros at all. Wouldn't just saying "press" and the "number" or "press contol" or "press alt" and the number do the trick (open the link), if this seems to be happening quite efficiently when you do it from the keyboard.
When I did use Dragon with it a bit, sometimes my Dragon seemed to overload on the high numbers (the ones over 100, and I had to close the program and re-open to get it working, but generally, it seemed to work ok. (I mostly have played with this program at this point from the keyboard).
One nit, on some pages, there are numbers in places they seem like they shouldn't be (in the middle of an article where there's no link). Usually, when that happens, look to the right or the left of the article, where the actual link may be. This is the exception, more than the rule (and not much of a problem).
Also, I'm using this with Firefox 1.06. It's a beta extension more meant I think for Deer Park (ultimately/soon to be Firefox 1.5). The page problem may be solved by then.
Anyway, it really is a delight from the keyboard, and SHOULD work well with Dragon. Though I confess, I need to practice more with it out of Dragon.
Re: Mouseless Browsing
Query: why the need for Macros at all. Wouldn't just saying "press" and the "number" or "press contol" or "press alt" and the number do the trick (open the link), if this seems to be happening quite efficiently when you do it from the keyboard.
I want to comment on more of your message, but first this query: with macros you can do more actions in one command, and the commands are more reliable when they are triggered by the right starting word. When saying each character with "press" in front of it and you want to follow to link "321" you have to save four utterances before the link is followed. When you use a macro like "choose 3 21" or "follow 3 hundred 21" you do this in one utterance. Even when following small numbers it is one utterance versus two utterances.
Moreover with macros is possible to use more hidden keys, which do not disturb other keyboard actions. That is the reason for my question to the authors of mouseless browsing to make it possible to react only on ctrl-number keys for example.
Quintijn
My enthusiasm with Mouseless Browsing
My enthusiasm with Mouseless Browsing is at this point mostly for the delightful keyboard ease that it operates. This morning though (I will be going away for a few days,) I did try Dragon with the software extension,Mouseless Browsing, and it seemed to work quite well, efficiently with Dragon.
On using Dragon with it, I've never explored in the Words/Mode setting, numbers mode. I've always operated from "normal Mode." I'm not sure whether "numbers mode" is supposed to be better for numbers, but I seem to get better results out of "Normal Mode."
Also, I wasn't sure, when you're saying a big number, like 321, whether you have to say, "press three hundred and twenty one," (as opposed to a short cut, like "press 341"), but today when I did that on http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ where the numbers get real high, said it the long way, that is, "press three hundred and twenty one" and then "press enter," everything was working very well. (The link opened!!!). The short cut, "press three four one" did not work. (AND MAYBE THAT IS YOUR POINT ABOUT MACROS--TO CUT DOWN WHAT ONE NEEDS TO SAY). Still, this Mouseless browsing extension, to me seems (at first blush, with quick testing, delightful. (Even without macros!) (If you can make it better/and more reliable in speaking, that would be even more so).
On that Real Politics page (the link of which I've cited) (a complex page with a lot of links/numbers), however, even though I have set as a preference not needing to press "enter," (the numbers are supposed to be sufficient), this page requires you (for some reason) to say that number plus "enter."
Thus, as I said in my post yesterday, the extension seems to work very well from the keyboard I did a lot of testing there), a quick test this morning (a half an hour of play) suggests that it also works quite well with Dragon.
Several clarifications and Comments
Several clarifications and comments:
"Firefox: 0.9.x - Deer Park" means its compatible with Firefox versions from 0.9 through Deer Park.
Saying "Press Alt/Ctrl" + number, doesn't work for me in DNS Pro 8 for numbers above 10, but a macro works just fine. My macro is "Link {NumberFrom1to250}", which costs at least one fewer syllable per link than saying it directly. But if someone has Preferred and can get it working for all numbers, that might be just fine.
I can't get HaH working yet, although I see the little "HaH" symbol at the bottom right of my Firefox window. That is more a reflection of how obtuse/lazy I am than the efficacy of the program.
FWIW, the little MB numbers don't disturb the layout much, but I don't necessarily like having them visible all the time -- being able to turn them on and off would be a nice plus. But for hands-free users, this wouldn't be a big consideration.
Overall, I don't think its necessary to agonize over the MB/HaH choice: Either appears to work, so the user can relish being able to choose between the two.
Bruce
Re: Several clarifications and Comments
the little MB numbers don't disturb the layout much, but I don't necessarily like having them visible all the time -- being able to turn them on and off would be a nice plus.
MB says you can toggle the display of the id tags using the "DECIMAL" key -- what the heck is that?
Thanks,
Bruce
Re: Several clarifications and Comments
the little MB numbers don't disturb the layout much, but I don't necessarily like having them visible all the time -- being able to turn them on and off would be a nice plus.
MB says you can toggle the display of the id tags using the "DECIMAL" key -- what the heck is that?
Thanks,
Bruce
OK, now I see: That would be equivalent to toggling NumLock on and striking the NumPad's {./Del} key.
Decimal Key
Yes, it took forever for me to figure out that it was what I might call the keypad peroid or "dot" key. I actually changed mine to the keypad delete key with the Options, since I don't use it very often.
Gene Venable
These seem like great ideas to me, but neither of them is working for me. HaH doesn't even install. Mouseless Browsing installs, and works -- sometimes, after which I think it's wonderful, after which it stops working. I have the weather forecast extension, and it works great. I am running the Google Web Accellerator. I am running Zone Alarm virus protection. My version of DNS is 8.1 pro. Windows XP, with the latest security updates. H-Menu, Skype, ePrompter, etc.
Yes, I can get rid of all that stuff and see what happens...
with control keys?
Try if Mouseless Browsing works (by hand) if you keep the control key pressed when entering keys at the numeric keypad.
Also put on the option (Tools, Extensions, and then Options) to automatic follow the link after 500 milliseconds.
Maybe it works then??
Quintijn
Nope
Unfortunately, neither of those work. I had already tried them, but I tried them again and they still didn't work.
Version of Firefox
I forgot to mention that I'm running the release version of Firefox, not the beta: 1.0.6.
Hit-a-Hint Works for me
I finally got Hit-a-Hint working. I wasn't seeing the Firefox message saying that downloads from the site weren't permitted. I still don't have Mouseless Browsing working.
Re: Browsing Firefox handsfree: which extension to use?
A few weeks ago I published some Dragon NaturallySpeaking macros for doing this (browsing hands-free in Firefox).
I made use of the Firefox extension "Hit-a-Hint". (see my webpage)
A week afterwards I found another Firefox extension, "Mouseless Browsing".
I tried to get this extension working with NatSpeak macros as well. I didn't succeed very well.
By golly! I can't get them quite right either. Using this script:
Number$ = Mid(ListVar1, 1, InStr(ListVar1, "\") - 1)
SendKeys "%(" & Number$ & ")", True
where ListVar1 = {NumberFrom1to250}, with a typical member like:
171\one hundered seventy one
I think what my script sends is {Alt + 1} instead of {Alt + 171}. In other words, it looks like the Alt shiftkey is only being applied to the last digit. Yet when I examine the whole output of my MID$() function in a text editor, the whole number string, i.e., "171", is displayed.
Its probably my misunderstanding of how the scripting language works. Can someone point out the correct way to do it?
Thanks,
Bruce
How to Turn Off Extraneous HaH Indexed Elements?
OK, I've gotten the hang of HaH and it works pretty good. The only problem is that in its default configuration it puts too many tags on the page. Is there a way to comment out the contents of the three "List of the other tags to be hinted:"? I could just copy these things to a text editor and delete them to see what effect that has, but I thought maybe there is a way to simply comment them out.
Bruce
Re: Browsing Firefox handsfree: which extension to use?
A few weeks ago I published some Dragon NaturallySpeaking macros for doing this (browsing hands-free in Firefox).
I made use of the Firefox extension "Hit-a-Hint". (see my webpage)
A week afterwards I found another Firefox extension, "Mouseless Browsing".
Maybe it is good to have some discussion here on what extension is favorable for hands-free browsing.
At this moment I see one important advantage for Hit-a-Hint: hints are placed "above" the page you are viewing, not disturbing the layout of the page.
Mouseless Browsing formats the hints after a hyperlink, which is very clear, but takes some space in the page.
It could be the best compromise to have textual hyperlinks done as in Mouseless Browsing, and have links for images floating in a corner of the image, like Hit-a-Hint.
Another issue is the interaction with other modes, mainly the automatic search mode. In my opinion it would be best if the keys that are to be received
by Hit-a-Hint or Mouseless Browsing were all "control" or "alt" keys, possibly from the numeric keypad.
And not to forget form fields. I didn't do much checking on this yet.
Hoping to start a discussion on this,
Greetings, Quintijn
The biggest problem I have with HaH is that I usually can't see the link indexes it puts on the page, whereas the MB indexes are very clear! The HaH indexes overlay the text and therefore aren't easy to read. You can infer what the number is by scrutinizing a large number of links to read the few that are decipherable, but this slows you down a lot.
Could be neither extension is ready for prime-time use yet!
Do other folks have the same problem, or is this phenomenon just a quirk of my set up?
Bruce
Problem with HaH Tags and Firefox Text Sizing
Hah seems to have a problem with text resizing in Firefox. Try showing the tags and then resize the text.
In the first place, I can't resize via the key shortcuts {Ctrl++}/{Ctrl+-}, but rather have to use the menu option "View | Text Size | Increase/Decrease".
When I do increase or decrease, the Hah tags don't follow gracefully, and it gets hard to tell which tag goes with which link.
The MB tags, however, do seem to resize very gracefully and naturally so that you never lose the visual connection between tag and link.
OTOH, I still can't figure out a way to send via script the required Alt/Control + NumberSequences required to trigger an MB link.
Maybe its time to send a note to the MB developer about this problem -- I'll let you know if I hear back anything.
Bruce
output the link ID names?
Is there any capacity for this to output the link ID names, outside Firefox, so some advanced script/ API thing can grab them, thus speech enabling names? I've just installed mouseless browsing.
Hello, The mouseless
Hello,
The mouseless browsing is a Firefox extension, which requires a lot of special programming efforts. These are completely different from speech recognition macro programming, so I would say no.
Greetings Quintijn