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vista hell with VV10
My lod laptop is no more it had DNS6 pro and was s**t because i could not get it to learn any thing acurasy was bad it was rely slow. my very old tower at my parents had VV6 or 7 fantasticly acurate learn nwe word inncluding greek and latin for anatomy with out any fuss. i am typing this which is slow and emotinal painful. you can see why from the typos. so new laptop arived no choise vista or nothing and neather fo my copys of dragon or vv would work i didnt really want DNS again as geting it to type Iliophsoas just ant going to workany time sone so i got VV10.5 pro as i was told it would work just fine BUT guess what it dosnt so at the moment i have no why of typing my assingments, i saw about to start my sports scince degery at uni via distance learnig not any more as iv had ot pull out as i cant make the start date for this trem with out an acurat relabel voice type aplication to get me trough th entrnce assesments.
So help me please how can i fix this as i cant afford any more softweare and can not down grade to xp


rockmouse wrote: My lod
My lod laptop is no more it had DNS6 pro. So help me please how can i fix this as i cant afford any more softweare and can not down grade to xp
Because you have Vista, you should consider trying the speech recognition software built into the operating system. Go to control panel and then Speech Recognition. Follow the directions for setting up the microphone and running the tutorial.
Although the correction facility in the Windows™ Speech Recognition software is not as good as it was in ViaVoice or Dragon, accuracy should be similar.
In addition, there is a Windows Speech Recognition toolkit available from our company for $15.99. It adds much of the functionality from ViaVoice and Dragon. This includes being able to create text and command macros as well as getting your documents and words. There is also a transcription module that allows you to transcribe wave files from digital recorders.
Also see our microphone website that is exclusively geared to microphones for Windows™ Speech Recognition at:
http://www.mymsspeech.com
You can also click on the new Chat Forum and dialogue with other users of Windows Speech Recognition. There's a special section for people with disabilities.
--
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
The best microphones for Speech Recognition
Read, "Key Steps to High Speech Recognition Accuracy
rockmouse wrote: so i got
so i got VV10.5 pro as i was told it would work just fine BUT guess what it dosnt
I'm not surprised it doesn't work! VV 10.5 Pro was never intended for Vista and there are no further updates to ViaVoice as research and development have stopped from what I know.
I think your best choice is trying what Martin Markoe said and see how it works for you!
rockmouse wrote: as geting
as geting it to type Iliophsoas just ant going to workany time sone
You add new words to Dragons vocabulary very easily.
I would definately consider moving to Dragon.
dragonuser
as geting it to type Iliophsoas just ant going to workany time sone
You add new words to Dragons vocabulary very easily.
I would definately consider moving to Dragon.
how cos icant get it to learn a thing as i cant read the manual and it dosei pick up new words from text like VV
Sorry to say it won't help
Sorry to say it won't help you, but for future reference to people reading this topic: Some vendors will sell you a license to replace Vista with XP, which might have been your best choice.
I would contact the vendor and see it you can buy a retroactive license.
Another possibility is to download M$ Virtual PC and install something like W2K or WXP on a virtual machine that runs within Vista. I do that to run old W95 word games on WXP SP3, but it might be too cumbersome to make it your primary computing environment.
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: Sorry to
Sorry to say it won't help you, but for future reference to people reading this topic: Some vendors will sell you a license to replace Vista with XP, which might have been your best choice.
In view of the urgency of your situation, Bruce's suggestion might appear to be the best. The advantage that you have is that you can import your existing speech files into VV 10, and you're up and running straight away.
It should not be beyond the laptop Vendor's ability to replace Vista with XP in approximately half an hour. I had this done
Consequently I can use both VV 10.5 (for which some of my speech files go back to 2001!) and DNS 9.5 (I will be on 10 after the bugs are sorted out).
Quentin
BruceCyr wrote: Another
Another possibility is to download M$ Virtual PC and install something like W2K or WXP on a virtual machine that runs within Vista. I do that to run old W95 word games on WXP SP3, but it might be too cumbersome to make it your primary computing environment.
Bruce
FYI, Virtual PC doesn't support USB at present, whereas VMWare does. The drawback is that VMWare costs $$ whereas Virtual PC does not.
However, if you download the VMWare demo and setup a Virtual OS with it, you can then download the Virtual Player which is a free tool of VMWare to use that Virtual partition.
Just thought I'd let you know in case you didn't
I found it to be far more solid and stable, and with a more mature support structure than Virtual PC.
kremesch wrote: if you
if you download the VMWare demo and setup a Virtual OS with it, you can then download the Virtual Player which is a free tool of VMWare to use that Virtual partition.
Just thought I'd let you know in case you didn't
I found it to be far more solid and stable, and with a more mature support structure than Virtual PC.
Nope, had no idea. I looked at VM Ware but balked at the price and apparent complexity -- its a tool for systems programmers and planners. Virtual PC was a comparative no brainer and sufficient for my needs
Bruce
Their site is far more
Their site is far more complex than their software
. It had me a little uncertain at first as well, if not overwhelmed. However, the VMWare Workstation (which is the one any typical user would want) is relatively the same in comparison to setting up Virtual PC.
I just thought I'd point it out because I found it a lot more solid than VPC. Not to mention that I use a USB mic which rendered VPC useless to myself and possibly to any others that might want to set up a virtual OS for speech recognition.
ViaVoice 10.5 reported as incompatible with Vista long ago
As far back as February 2007 I tried to find a way to install ViaVoice 10.5 on Windows Vista. I subsequently set up a completely new system and tried it again several times in the past year when I had free time. Each time it failed.
First, ViaVoice 10.5 will not completely install on Windows Vista itself. The reason is that it fails when installing the macro and command sections. Unfortunately, the failure to install leaves over 475 registry entries that must be removed one by one because many of them have permission settings that prevent the automatic removal of these entries. In short, removing it after it fails to install is a user's worst nightmare.
Second, at one point I thought I could pull Windows Vista by installing ViaVoice 10.5 on a completely clean system (i.e., no other applications installed except Windows XP) and then upgrade to Windows Vista. Unfortunately, the Vista install caught the fact that ViaVoice 10.5 was installed, claimed that it was incompatible, and would allow the update to Windows Vista to complete until ViaVoice was removed.
I reported this on all of the major forums, but I conceded at that time that it might still be possible and encourage those who had ViaVoice 10.5 installed to try it, warning everyone of what they would likely to run into. Subsequently, no one has reported any successes, and Microsoft reports it as completely incompatible with Windows Vista.
Why anyone would indicate that ViaVoice 10.5 was compatible with Windows Vista is simply beyond comprehension. Anyone who would have given you that information never tried installing it and should be shot at dawn.
The best that I was ever able to do was to get it to load one time after the incomplete install, but immediately attempting to use it cause it to totally crash my system, which required a complete reinstallation of Windows Vista.
The only suggestion that I can offer you is that you might look into DNS 10. The earlier versions of DNS to which you refer in your post don't hold a candle to DNS 10, especially as regard the issues that you had with those versions. For the sake of this post, I added the word to which you refer to the vocabulary and trained it. Iliophsoas displays correctly every single time. I have dictated it below 10 times in succession:
Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas
DNS 10 gets it correct every time and doesn't miss a beat.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee - that will do them in. - Bradley's Bromide
Quote:
Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas
DNS 10 gets it correct every time and doesn't miss a beat.
Or wrong, depending on how you spell Iliopsoas
Mark
MarkUK
Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas Iliophsoas
DNS 10 gets it correct every time and doesn't miss a beat.
Or wrong, depending on how you spell Iliopsoas
Mark
Assuming you could pronounce it not merely once but 10 times
Quentin
Mark, Sorry, I entered it it
Mark,
Sorry, I entered it it wrong in the vocabulary. It still got it the way I spelled it.
OK, how about we change it to iliotibial, which is in the DNS vocabulary without having to add it.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
"The best of us must sometimes eat our words." - J. K. Rowling: British fantasy author
Pun Intended
Chuck Runquist
First, ViaVoice 10.5 will not completely install on Windows Vista itself. The reason is that it fails when installing the macro and command sections.
Did you get as far as allowing the installation to finish, and by pasting the existing user files into the user folder, allowing immediate start up using that user, opening the " Work with Navigation Macros", and manually importing the macros from the installation disc?
Quentin
progress to date
i will try vistas own pakage the one i was'nt toald about at PCWORLD How happly charged me £70 for vv 10.5 and wont refud or give me any form of compensation for there bad advice.
DNS10 may end up on my xmas list for santa. if it dose im going to need help to get the vocabulary up to speed.
VV10.5 loaded very slowly and then let me start the training process, after which i closed the programe then found it would'tn launch again normaly but it did start from control panal once!!
acer and 3 mobile will not warenty my laptop if i down grade to xp 3 consider it as a berach of contract as they retaine owner ship of the laptop for the period of the bradband contract.
I whish i had known about this sigth before all the fun and games as you have all been so helpful.
Quentin, I tried it all. I
Quentin,
I tried it all. I must've spent 30 or 40 hours trying to get it to install and run properly. As I said, I did get close enough to try to do what you suggested. However, every time it loaded it would crash no matter what I did.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee - that will do them in. - Bradley's Bromide
Did you try with the
Did you try with the Microsoft Virtual PC with XP loaded?
Kinda curious.
Skip, Who me? I've lost
Skip,
Who me? I've lost track of the threads in this topic!
I did load M$ Virtual PC into WXP SP3, and then W2K into that virtual machine, and then my w95 word games into that, and then I sat down to a big bowl of alphabet soup.
Once I learned how to adjust the screen to cover the monitor, I was in word game heaven. I am slightly peeved, though, that all that software doesn't seem to have slowed down my computer opponents, which means I have to cheat just as deviously and devotedly as ever
Bruce
Bruce, I was directing that
Bruce,
I was directing that at Chuck actually.
I haven't played some games in a LONG time. Hmm.. might be a good use for Virtual PC. It's a shame it doesn't do any USB emulation though. It's almost as if they own a part of VMWare. The VMWare Workstation at $189 a copy is a bit hard to swallow. Obviously priced for the affluent or a business. Too much for MY blood!
Skip
P.S. Let me know how bad the computer opponents whomp on ya.
They're a miserably
They're a miserably heartless bunch of...
But I'll take them down a peg or two, literally -- sooner or later I'll find a player level that lets me win 50% of the games
Bruce
You can download VMWare
You can download VMWare workstation and server for free nowadays!
dragonuser wrote: You can
You can download VMWare workstation and server for free nowadays!
Yes, but it's only a 30 day free trial. After that you have to pay. That kind of trial is smart marketing for both the maker and the user, but only if the latter knows he is willing to fork out the money if the trial works out.
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: fork out
fork out the money if the trial works out.
Not IF -- WHEN!
Ok maybe that is the case
Ok maybe that is the case with workstation, but vmware server is free in perpetuity, and its what I use for my virtualised environments on my desktop PC.
"vmware server is free in
"vmware server is free in perpetuity"
Or at least till an upgrade comes out
I may give it a go. There appears to be a steeper learning curve than with M$ VPC, especially for non-programming types.
Bruce
PS: Oh, here's getting back on topic: Do you think it might work for the OP? What kind of support is available? What skill level/experience is required?
BruceCyr wrote:Do you
Do you think it might work for the OP? What kind of support is available? What skill level/experience is required?
Well if you virtualised an XP environment and have sufficient RAM then yes, (I have got DNS 9 std virtualised in a XP virtual machine - 3Gb of RAM and Vista on real machine, 1Gb RAM assigned to virtual machine), and if you are IT savvy then it is easy enough to do, but Nuance will not support virtualised environments if anything goes wrong. That said it *shouldn't* go wrong.
dragonuser wrote: BruceCyr
Do you think it might work for the OP? What kind of support is available? What skill level/experience is required?
Well if you virtualised an XP environment and have sufficient RAM then yes, (I have got DNS 9 std virtualised in a XP virtual machine - 3Gb of RAM and Vista on real machine, 1Gb RAM assigned to virtual machine), and if you are IT savvy then it is easy enough to do, but Nuance will not support virtualised environments if anything goes wrong. That said it *shouldn't* go wrong.
Spoken like an IT wonk!
I downloaded about 1 additional gig of files -- server, player, browser -- tried to read some of the documentation, etc., and I judge it beyond my patience and skill. Its a power-squared user's tool. If I want some manageable frustration, I'll stick to something comparatively simple, like getting Vocola/UniMacro up and running.
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: If I want
If I want some manageable frustration, I'll stick to something comparatively simple, like getting Vocola/UniMacro up and running.
That exceeded my frustration level.
I think I may go back to stone with hammers and chisels.
I wonder how that is on RSI?
IT Wonk? Really don't know
IT Wonk? Really don't know how to take that!
Who reads documentation? Just try stuff until it works!
dragonuser wrote: IT Wonk?
IT Wonk? Really don't know how to take that!
Who reads documentation? Just try stuff until it works!
No question about it -- you am one
This stuff is no SR walk-in-the-park! Its complicated, it has nothing to do with my normal routines, its gives me nothing that I need. In those respects, I think I'm a pretty normal Joe SixPack.
More importantly, it seems to me we aren't giving empathy for the OP's situation -- I may be selling him short (maybe he's more motivated and/or more sophisticated than I am), but I don't think he has the background to do what you have done, especially since (given Chuck Runquist's quest documented earlier) its unlikely to benefit him after all the hassle!
Seems to me what would be most useful for the OP, and what would return this topic to its origin, would be for someone with the skill and time to set up a VM virtual machine on Vista and try to install and use ViaVoice. If it works, s/he could help the OP. If not, s/he could share the failure and save others the waste of time and emotional collapse.
Since I'm responsible in large part for this detour, I apologize to the OP for hijacking this topic for no apparent benefit.
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: [Seems to
[Seems to me what would be most useful for the OP, and what would return this topic to its origin, would be for someone with the skill and time to set up a VM virtual machine on Vista and try to install and use ViaVoice. If it works, s/he could help the OP.
You are quite right, we have disappeared off down a tangent, but just feel the need to clarify something.
If the original OPs machine has enough RAM - 2Gb, then there will be no issues at all creating a 1Gb XP virtual machine and installing VV on it. I have no doubt that this will work.
However...
You still need to pay for the OS on the virtual machine, even if you haven't paid for the virtual environment itself. So you would still have to pay for the copy of XP in the virtual machine - oh and MS Office and anything else you install on it.
So...
Bottom line - running VV on a virtualised XP machine on a real Vista machine will work, but by the time you have spent the money to do it legally, you may as well have bought a copy of DNS 10.
Sorry...
IT Wonk
AKA dragonuser
As per Bruce my apologies to the OP
I got lost but know i get it
[Seems to me what would be most useful for the OP, and what would return this topic to its origin, would be for someone with the skill and time to set up a VM virtual machine on Vista and try to install and use ViaVoice. If it works, s/he could help the OP.
You are quite right, we have disappeared off down a tangent, but just feel the need to clarify something.
If the original OPs machine has enough RAM - 2Gb, then there will be no issues at all creating a 1Gb XP virtual machine and installing VV on it. I have no doubt that this will work.
However...
You still need to pay for the OS on the virtual machine, even if you haven't paid for the virtual environment itself. So you would still have to pay for the copy of XP in the virtual machine - oh and MS Office and anything else you install on it.
So...
Bottom line - running VV on a virtualised XP machine on a real Vista machine will work, but by the time you have spent the money to do it legally, you may as well have bought a copy of DNS 10.
Sorry...
IT Wonk
AKA dragonuser
Thank you
Points for consideration:
1 im a girl and no It geek athow i Know 2
2 I have a unsed copy of w2k and more liecnced copys of office than i know what to do with.
3 term stared to day without me as to add to the trama my new laptop got sick with win anti viurs 2009, It is curently on life suport care of one said geek althow the prognsis is good and it shoul be ready to go back into work this week.
4 Idont understand how to teach dragon and iv been using VV since 95 all through school and collage and thats alot of teaching.
5 I just about know one end of a pc from the other mine has 3gb of ram which vista and its programs needs a minimum of 2. itsa a dual core thingy with a 160gb hard drive which appers to have a partion that cant be changed ? or not by me.
So the big question is If i run office 2003/7 and on w2k and vv 10,5 with ms vurtal pc with 1 gb ram when im not useing it can the laptop use the 1gb of asinged ram or is that efectivly lost as I am seting up a vurtal world for fitness testing to look at the potental practical applications for athleats, thankfuly is another 6 months before the next enrolment for the course now.
thank you again
Rockmouse,
Rockmouse,
I would make the following suggestion:-
1. Have one of your "geek" friends make a image of your laptop Vista. The purpose of this is that if you follow my suggestion, you will always be able to put back the original Vista.
2. If he/she can do it, make an image of the hidden partition. The hidden partition usually contains all the necessary files required for a restoration of the operating system after a crash. On my current laptop (WIN XP), having had my entire disc wiped out when I tried to install Linux in one of the partitions, I did not replace the hidden partition, as it refused to install. However the computer runs perfectly without that. I do not have to worry about restoration of the OS system, as it is fully imaged every month after a Windows update, and I always keep an older image in reserve in case the update causes problems (that has happened).
3. Then the Vista operating system (the entire of C drive) can be deleted.
4. You should then be able to install W2K.
5. VV 10.5 is designed to work with Word 2003 and all its predecessors, but may not have the same facilities for Word 2007 (I have never tried it with Word 2007. It would probably only work with Direct Dictation ). Quite frankly, I have always found that Word 97 does everything I need in a legal office environment.
As you said in a previous posting, doing all the above may invalidate your warranty. You should have a look at the small print of the conditions. You can then make your own decision.
Another alternative would be to see if you could trade in your new computer for one with XP installed. Alternatively you could try to sell your computer on eBay, take a hit on the loss, and purchase a new laptop, or desktop, with lower specifications. Remember that VV is not a resource hogger, and you would manage well with anything above a 1.2 GHz Centrino or AMD equivalent, with 1 Gb Ram, with WIN XP.
I know you said that expenditure is difficult, but in your situation, this might be your best solution.
Quentin
Now is the time to move to Dragon
I have very little doubt that virtualising a Windows 2000 machine would work, but I really think that by far the best route forward is to move to Dragon 10 natively running on your machine.
I realise that you are very familiar with ViaVoice and have used it for such a long time, but Dragon takes hardly any time to learn your voice, (you could select the no training option but I would always suggest that you do at least some general training, and it should take no more than 5 or 6 minutes).
Of course, you also have to learn all the Dragon commands, but as ViaVoice is effectively a dead product and without meaning to be patronising, you are obviously going to need a speech recognition product for the rest of your life, I really don't think it's worth putting off the inevitable, and would suggest you start your transition to Dragon now .
I just think with all the complication of starting up using a virtual machine, you might as well assign your learning path to something that is valuable for your future, namely Dragon...
I know this is not what you want to hear, but I really believe that we have managed to confuse the issue for you in this forum, and I can only apologise to you for that.
If you are going to need speech recognition product support for the rest of your life then Dragon really is the only way forward.
rockmouse wrote: 2 I have a
2 I have a unsed copy of w2k and more liecnced copys of office than i know what to do with.
The best route for you (expense-free) would be virtualizing w2k. With virtualizing, you don't need to repartition your drive or worry about wiping out your existing operating system. Virtualizing runs in its own contained field like a seperate program, and you can run it simultaneously with your existing setup without any ill-effect.
4 Idont understand how to teach dragon and iv been using VV since 95 all through school and collage and thats alot of teaching.
Dragon walks you through and has some very good tutorials, but since you stated that money is an issue, it doesn't make sense for you to run out and purchase a copy at this point in time. However, it may be worth some consideration for you sometime in the future.
So the big question is If i run office 2003/7 and on w2k and vv 10,5 with ms vurtal pc with 1 gb ram when im not useing it can the laptop use the 1gb of asinged ram or is that efectivly lost as I am seting up a vurtal world for fitness testing to look at the potental practical applications for athleats, thankfuly is another 6 months before the next enrolment for the course now.
thank you again
The one gig of ram is not lost, as I stated, Virtual OS's only use the RAM like any other program would (the amount that is required), they do not take it. In fact, Virtual Programs are nothing more than a program that fools the contained OS within to think it's a real/legitimate environment. With 3G of existing RAM, you should notice no problems whatsoever with either the Host (Vista) or the Guest (w2k) operating systems.
With all that said. MS Virtual PC is laggy for Speech Recognition, and to stress the point, it does not support USB devices at the present. So, if you have a USB mic or pod, you are out of luck.
Second, VMWare has been mentioned, does extremely well with Voice Recognition, supports USB, and appears to be a little too technical in this thread - it is NOT any different than setting up MS Virtual PC. The thing to keep in mind here is that VMWare SERVER, which is the free one, IS complicated. What you want to do if you go this route is to download the trial version of VMWare WORKSTATION, install it, set up your w2k environment on it, and then use the portion of the program that also installs with VMWare Workstation called VMWare PLAYER. The VMWare player never runs out (the trial does not apply to it). It is free to use for however long you want to use it for. All you do is simply start it up after running (setting up w2k), and select the Virtual OS you created in with WORKSTATION (it will show up in the PLAYER's list) and away you go.
kremesch wrote: Second,
Second, VMWare has been mentioned, does extremely well with Voice Recognition, supports USB, and appears to be a little too technical in this thread - it is NOT any different than setting up MS Virtual PC. The thing to keep in mind here is that VMWare SERVER, which is the free one, IS complicated. What you want to do if you go this route is to download the trial version of VMWare WORKSTATION, install it, set up your w2k environment on it, and then use the portion of the program that also installs with VMWare Workstation called VMWare PLAYER. The VMWare player never runs out (the trial does not apply to it). It is free to use for however long you want to use it for. All you do is simply start it up after running (setting up w2k), and select the Virtual OS you created in with WORKSTATION (it will show up in the PLAYER's list) and away you go.
Oh, OK, that's the kind of technical baloney cutter us regular types need
I could have spent months fiddling around before figuring that out -- if ever 
This is all good help for the OP, I hope, but to me there is still the unanswered question of whether ViaVoice will actually run in this virtualized environment. So has anyone actually tried it? If not, rockmouse has to face the possibility that it may or may not work after all this effort, and there are plenty of potential pitfalls for anyone who is not technically experienced.
Bruce
PS: Maybe some of the
PS: Maybe some of the participants in this topic would be willing to provide technical advice -- service above and beyond the norm for a user forum?!
dragonuser wrote: IT Wonk?
IT Wonk? Really don't know how to take that!
Who reads documentation? Just try stuff until it works!
dragonuser,
Sorry, I got carried away with an idea -- as usual. Thank you for taking it as it was meant.
Bruce
dragonuser wrote: Who reads
Who reads documentation? Just try stuff until it works!
Documentation: noun: program listings or technical manuals describing the operation and use of programs
Oh.. that stuff. You aren't supposed to use it to light the fireplace with?
Unfortunately, I don't have
Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of VV, but I do use VMWare with DNS, and it runs extremely well (Vista 64 with a Virtual XP). I also used MS Virtual PC for quite some time until I got fed up with it's lack of hardware support and general overall low performance - the reason I don't recommend it for Speech recognition. Not to mention that VMWare provides much better user support via their forums than VPC does.
Also, I'm keeping in mind that the OP doesn't have the monetary means to purchase a whole new system and/or software, and that in this particular case, the time may very well pay off if he/she can get it working - Just my two cents for whatever it's worth.
On the other hand, you're absolutely correct that it would be nice to know if anyone else has had any luck with a Vista/w2K/VV setup.
OK, one hopefully final
OK, one hopefully final sequence of questions re: the VM workstation/player segue:
Do you just create the virtual machine on workstation and have faith that player will find it on installation? How does that work?
Also: What if you later decide the virtual machine you've set up isn't optimal? Are you stuck with what you've got, or can you modify it without buying the whole package? Also, are there any tips on how you should optimize it for a particular application(s)?
Thanks,
Bruce
One More Final Question Re: VM Ware Use
Well, nothing like a passing s rest stop/milestone to motivate your body parts
In this case, the putative benefit of a virtual machine is to try to fool a non-compatible application to work on a resistant OS. But in general, what's the benefit(s) of a virtual machine to a user?
Bruce
Okay, I'm gonna try and give
Okay, I'm gonna try and give it my best here at the risk of sounding like a sales person, which I am NOT, by the way. I'm just hoping to clarify.
Do you just create the virtual machine on workstation and have faith that player will find it on installation? How does that work?
If I recall correctly, upon first use, it will ask you where your Virtual Environment is. This is generally in your 'My Documents\VMWare', or something similar, or where ever you may have moved or saved it to (other than the default locaion)
Also: What if you later decide the virtual machine you've set up isn't optimal? Are you stuck with what you've got, or can you modify it without buying the whole package? Also, are there any tips on how you should optimize it for a particular application(s)?
You've got 30 days to play around with it. Or you can always reformat your existing OS to refresh the registry, or you can wait until the next reslease to try a newer version of the trial (I know, not everyone wants to do any of that, but they are viable options)
And let's not forget the actual server version that VMWare offers for free if you get really desperate and want to avoid the other extreme options.
Other than that, it comes with some good suggestions on what to use. My basic rule of thumb is to take a look at what the operating system you want to virtualize uses/used for HD space and RAM. From this option, choose the more stable and permant (fixed) size for the Virtual HD and adjust the amount of RAM to allocate after you're done.
For XP with SP3, I found 30G of HD space and 1G of RAM to be perfect(Service Packs are big, and DNS along with word takes up a fair amount of space), but 20G should get you by just fine if you're only going to go with SP2 and skip SP3, and you don't think you'll be doing anything else with it besides Speech Recognition and Playing a few small games (like cards and the like).
For w2K, I found 20G of HD space and 512 MB of RAM to be more than adequate. Of course, I don't use this for Speech recognition and feel I probably went a little overkill on the specs for it. But good enough, at least I don't have to worry about needing to adjust it later on.
Also, since w2K applies to the OP and VV, I would take a look at the minimum requirement for VV and adjust my RAM to higher if I needed to, but I doubt I'd go lower than 512MB
For w98, I believe I set up a whopping 10G of HD space and went extreme with 256 MB of RAM. Again, I don't use 98 for speech recognition because that's just crazy. But I do use if for all of those old legacy games that I still enjoy playing from time to time. Also, it's nice to load up for that nice 'retro' feel when I'm feeling nostalgic.
I would have gone with a copy of 95 too, but I'm beginning to think I might have actually thrown that one out since I can't find it. However, if I was going to set that one up. I'd probably only use 2G of HD space, and 32MB of RAM. After all, once you've got 98, who really needs 95 anyway?
And yes, in case you're wondering, I may have gone a smidgen overboard in the field of experimentation. But that's how I learn.
It's also how I troubleshoot, and I'm not expecting anyone or everyone to pull out their old OS's of any flavour and load them all up.
In this case, the putative benefit of a virtual machine is to try to fool a non-compatible application to work on a resistant OS.
Yes.
But in general, what's the benefit(s) of a virtual machine to a user?
I believe the benefits speak for themselves. But here's what I found out from experience so far:
Pros:
1) I don't have to reboot to switch operating systems. Nor do I have to repartition my drive and wipe out or corrupt my existing OS to get things going. If I need to run a pre-Vista program (or in my case, even print a flipping document or use DNS), all I have to do is launch the Virtual environment, wait for it to load (usually pretty fast), and then go ahead and do my thing.
2) I can play legacy games and software that won't run on modern Operating systems, I can use any version of SR, all within the virtual environment, and I can continue to do other things on the host, like surf the net for research or run modern software (in my case, the host is Vista 64-bit, so limitations are even more unique).
3) I only need to run antivirus on the host, because I don't surf the net or download anything to my guest operating systems. It's easy enough to click and drag from one OS to another, or simply set up a shared folder structure.
4) I don't have to worry about having to do it all over again. After the initial setup, and once all the patches/fixes are applied to the OS, along with software that requires activation, I simply copy the Virtual partition onto an external hard drive and keep it there as a pristine backup to restore the one on my machine if anything goes wrong by either me or an act of nature.
5) it runs just like any other program would, shows up on the taskbar, can be switched between programs like any other program, and it can be maxized, mimized, closed with a snapshot that will open it exactly where you left off from the last time. If I really want the retro feel, I can maximize it to cover over Vista, making it feel like I'm in the real thing. Of course, it's nothing more than fool's gold, because I can easily minimize it down to remind me that I haven't really gone back in time. The other thing is that the resolution will automatically adjust to whatever size the window is set to.
6) It's risk-free. Like I already mentioned, you don't need to whipe out your existing Operating system to try it, only to find that it might not work. It's also designed to downplay your hardware for older OS's, making your chances of running them much higher than actually installing it on an actual partition.
cons:
1) It's not the real thing, even though it is the real OS, and you can't use any killer video driver's to run extreme games (not that it really applies to me, but it's worth mentioning). The older OS's may prove to be more of a pain than a benefit to set up and run on the more modern machines, and there may be CPU timing issues, particularly for those that run 64-bit AMD chips. However, as long as you're not living in the vitual environment this shouldn't be too big of a problem, and there is also a knowledge base available at your disposal to help solve those issues - they're already documented.
2) There is occasional lag and strange graphical glitches that make simple and common tasks like double-clicking quirky at times.
3) It takes up Hard Drive space, and if you don't have the space to begin with, it's not always the most optimal choice. Of course this also applies to partitioning/dual-booting as well - the space and resources need to be there to begin with in both cases.
4) I wouldn't expect anything phenomenal without already having the maximum amount of RAM allowed for my current (Host) OS, not that I would expect anything phenomenal anyway, it's only an OS, but still...
5) As much as I try, I can't think of anything else to knock it down with at present, other than the fact that it's a nuissance to have to run more than one OS.
kremesch, Thanks -- that's a
kremesch,
Thanks -- that's a good, useful summary. I think anybody interested in trying a virtual OS will profit from your good work here.
Bruce
You are welcome, and thank
You are welcome, and thank you.
But I need to make one edit. The default folder or VMWare is named Virtual Machines.