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What Are the Good Words on DNS 10?
Submitted by BruceCyr on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 16:05.
We've heard about the problems some people had with installation, but we haven't heard any positive feedback. Is that because everyone thinks good news is bad copy, or what? Us Pro users want to hear! Bruce |
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It has been terribly quiet.
It has been terribly quiet. Perhaps they are getting the tar and feathers ready?
Nuance are now admitting
Nuance are now admitting there are issues with DNS 10 installs and that there will be a point release to address this in the next few months.
Are you saying NO ONE has
Are you saying NO ONE has been able to install?!
Bruce
No sorry - should have said
No sorry - should have said "issues with SOME DNS 10 installs"
To be honest the greater percentage of my installs go without a hitch, but sometimes there are issues with the C++ library install, but there are articles on the Nuance Knowledge Base that help with this.
Go or hold on DNS 10?
I don't use DNS full time, and when I need it, I need it.
9.51 is really happy on my laptop... I'm looking at building a new XP desktop that would be a god box for horsepower (Video rendering). So the temptation from following the threads here is keep 9.5.1 on the laptop and install 10 fresh on the god box.
By putting XP and SP3 on with the .Net framework, I should be good to try 10?
Tcat.net Training...Remembered (TM)
Nuance now admitting ... point release
Would this "point release" be in the form of an install cd that works without the extra steps in the tech note? Thanks, jimr33
Like a lot of other users, I
Like a lot of other users, I too had problems with installation, but eventually managed to succeed thanks to suggestions from other members of Speech Computing. I haven't had much of a chance to use the program, but I absolutely love what I've experienced so far! I purchased DNS 10 to relieve physical issues, and it's certainly helped the way I'd hoped. I'm very happy I made the investment!
Would you share your solution with everyone?
Like a lot of other users, I too had problems with installation, but eventually managed to succeed thanks to suggestions from other members of Speech Computing. I haven't had much of a chance to use the program, but I absolutely love what I've experienced so far! I purchased DNS 10 to relieve physical issues, and it's certainly helped the way I'd hoped. I'm very happy I made the investment! :D
Whatever works for you, it would be helpful if you could identify the specifics of your situation and what solution work. The reason that I ask you to post this is that the same solution does not always work in all cases. The solution to the problem is not a one-size-fits-all one.
I'm trying to keep a set of notes on what condition (hardware/software/OS) exists on a given system and what solution worked with that configuration.
I think it would benefit everybody who is having problems to know specifically what worked for you and why.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
"We learn by doing." -- Aristotle
honey63, Thank you, that's
honey63,
Thank you, that's in the line of what I was asking to hear.
Bruce
honey63 wrote: Like a lot
Like a lot of other users, I too had problems with installation, but eventually managed to succeed thanks to suggestions from other members of Speech Computing.
Things like this are what make all the work I do on this site worthwhile.
Thank you!
Skip
Thanks for the comments
Thanks for the comments guys, and I'm VERY glad I found Speech Computing when I was searching for a solution because at the time I was going nuts!! I spent a total of about 4 hours on installation of DNS 10. I read every post on here, I tried every fix posted, and eventually I DID find one that worked. I now just have to remember which one it was!! lol
Firstly, I'm running Vista on this computer, which I only bought earlier this year. I hate it!!!! I've had nothing but trouble with this thing, so much so that I went and spent $199 buying XP Home full version to change back to. I've been unable to get the darn thing to accept XP so I'm STILL on Vista unfortunately!
But I digress, sorry ...
One of the first steps I took was to check and see if my pc was capable of running SSE2, which it was. Having eliminated that problem, I went through every step on this thread ...
http://www.speechcomputing.com/node/2031
But it was this step that finally did the trick ...
"Solution 4:
The following solution will stop Dragon NaturallySpeaking from checking for a required restart. This is the same as solution 3 without using the VBS files.
Note: If the system is actually in need of a restart, it is likely that the installation will fail. Only use these steps if Solution 1 and 2 do not resolve the problem.
1. Download the files noted in Solution 3.
2. After the files have been extracted, install vcruntime using the following parameter:
* ...path...\vcruntime.exe -v"SKIP_PENDINGREBOOT_CHECK=1"
* The path must be altered to the exact location of vcruntime.exe
* This parameter will not work with the original installation files. It will only work with the updated vcruntime.exe provided in the download above.
3. Install Dragon NaturallySpeaking using the following parameter:
* ...path...\setup.exe -v"SKIP_PENDINGREBOOT_CHECK=1"
* The path must be altered to the exact location of setup.exe from the original media."
I can totally relate to everyone's frustration with DNS 10 and Vista, but I personally believe it's NOT DNS causing the issues, but Vista itself. Then again, with my computer crashing on a regular basis, I guess I'm biased!
Chuck, I'd personally like to thank you in particular for all the hard work and effort you put into the above thread. Without your help, I would never have succeeded with installation and I'd probably still be sitting here pulling my hair out!! I'm also very glad I found Speech Computing since I've never used a program even remotely like DNS. I guess after so many years of taking everyone else's dictation, it's going to take a bit of time to get used to giving it for a change!
What is wrong with Nuance
What is wrong with Nuance? Are they not testing products properly before putting them out in the market? Has all of these problems happened as a result of the premature sales? Even so that was only few weeks before the planned marketing.
I have never heard so many complaints regarding installation, and one wonders what the ordinary non-computer literate user does in this situation.
Quite frankly, I think that Nuance should pull back DNS 10 from the market, get their act together, and having done that, send replacements to those who have already purchased DNS 10.
Quentin
That's an idea! They could
That's an idea! They could make up the lost revenue by doubling the price on VV without really hurting any one
I don't know -- I assumed that we're just hearing about a disproportionate number of failed installations, which is why I began this thread. The absence of positive responses makes me wonder about the validity of my assumption.
Bruce
crivon1 wrote: What is
What is wrong with Nuance? Are they not testing products properly before putting them out in the market? Has all of these problems happened as a result of the premature sales? Even so that was only few weeks before the planned marketing.
I have never heard so many complaints regarding installation, and one wonders what the ordinary non-computer literate user does in this situation.
Quite frankly, I think that Nuance should pull back DNS 10 from the market, get their act together, and having done that, send replacements to those who have already purchased DNS 10.
Quentin
First, you don't have DNS 10 (i.e., it's very obvious from your comment that you don't).
Second, the problem is not as pervasive as it appears. As you well know users generally don't report successes. Therefore, the emphasis is always on problems vs. successes.
Third, the problem is not with DNS itself or the DNS install, the problem lies with the Visual C++ runtime for Dragon NaturallySpeaking, which is simply Visual C++ runtime library 2008. In DNS 10, this is a prerequisite in order to support some of the new features as well as providing support for Net Framework. Unfortunately, when the prerequisite fails, and there are a number of reasons why this happens including bugs in Windows update for both Windows XP and Windows Vista, as well as certain system configurations that either block the installation of the Visual C++ runtime for Dragon NaturallySpeaking or cause it to fail. Once the Visual C++ runtime for Dragon NaturallySpeaking is installed properly, the installation for DNS 10 proceeds without issue.
Lastly, Nuance is well aware of the problem and has provided a number of solutions, one of which works in virtually all cases. I have been helping development address this issue and have provided extensive explanations and expectations for resolving this particular problem. It has nothing to do with any premature release of DNS 10.
It seems to me that your gripe is based more on assumption than understanding. I would agree that the problem is slightly more pervasive than previous install issues, but it is by no means as extensive as you imply. I've had the problem occur on two of my systems, I understand why it occurred on both, and I was easily able to rectify the situation. I can state unequivocally that it is not the DNS install that is the problem and once the problem is resolved DNS 10 installs very nicely and much more efficiently than previous versions.
Please understand that I'm not criticizing you. I'm simply pointing out that you're being a little bit too quick to point the finger at Nuance. Yes, Nuance is responsible for finding the solutions and providing users with such, which they have in technote 6001 in the Nuance knowledgebase, and they are also responsible for making appropriate corrections to the install procedure for Visual C++ runtime for Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Nevertheless, it is not as much of a disaster as you seem to be making it out to be.
On the other hand, don't call me a company man. While I see the overall improvements that have been made in DNS 10 as quite significant, practical, and functional, I also see some issues that need addressing an improvement. Not everything is peaches and cream. Some features have been removed that I think should not have been removed. Some features, like the floating results box issue, have not been addressed. There are some minor problems with the formatting and options settings. Nevertheless, these are minor and easily fixed. DNS 10 is not perfect, but no previous version has been perfect either. I think there is a tendency to over emphasize the problems while under emphasizing the advantages and the improvement. The decrease in latency between dictation and transcription is a significant improvement. The improvement in the speaker independent Acoustic Model is nothing short of amazing. I selected no training when I created this user and I have not had to train it while still getting virtually 99.9% accuracy most of the time, and 100% accuracy more often than I did with version 9.5. DNS 10 correctly recognizes words and phrases that it missed consistently in earlier versions without any general training. The Acoustic and Language Model Optimizer is significantly improved. New editing features have been added that make editing much easier and simpler. In short, there are a lot more things that are good and improved in DNS 10 and there are many bug fixes that are yet undocumented by users posting on any of the forums.
As regards your comment about testing, it is impossible to test any new version of any software application sufficiently to prevent or correct all the bugs. Microsoft Office 2003/2007 has over 150 documented major bugs despite the extensive beta testing that was done with both. IMHO, it is simply too easy to criticize and point the finger.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving."-- Dale Carnegie
Chuck Runquist
Second, the problem is not as pervasive as it appears. As you well know users generally don't report successes. Therefore, the emphasis is always on problems vs. successes.
Thank you for confirming that.
Third, the problem is not with DNS itself or the DNS install, the problem lies with the Visual C++ runtime for Dragon NaturallySpeaking
While that may be true, Nuance is still at fault -- it opted for an improvement based on an apparently faulty tool. But the sooner it can fix the problems, the quicker this fuss will all go away -- provided that DNS 10 actually is that much of an improvement.
Bruce
Quote: While that may be
While that may be true, Nuance is still at fault -- it opted for an improvement based on an apparently faulty tool. But the sooner it can fix the problems, the quicker this fuss will all go away -- provided that DNS 10 actually is that much of an improvement.
Bruce,
I believe that I acknowledged that in my post. I already have had a knockdown drag out with Nuance technical support and development about releasing a version before such issues are addressed properly.
I know that if Nuance is reading these posts, they will have a field day with me. However, even though the problem is fairly easily resolved, it still is a stupid error that should never have been allowed. When I was release engineer for Lernout & Hauspie (L&H), this type of problem would have been considered a major showstopper until it was clearly identified and corrected. Or, if it couldn't be prevented on some systems, a detailed solution would have had to have been worked out before the product was released. I held DNS 6.0 for 30 days and refused to release it until there were two major bug fixes implemented.
So, I'm not in disagreement with you on this issue.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS for Lernout & Hauspie (L&H)
.. a computer is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things, while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do incredibly stupid things. They are, in short, a perfect match. ~Bill Bryson
Chuck Runquist wrote: As
As you well know users generally don't report successes. Therefore, the emphasis is always on problems vs. successes.
Then I'd like to report a success, at least a mitigated one. I've installed successfully DNS 10 on a new Shuttle XPC SP35P2, ver. 2, with a dual 3ghz cpu and 4 gb DDR RAM, Win XP SP3. I think using DNS 10 combined with my newest, most powerful computer I've had so far I can achieve consistent speeds of 130 wpm or better with possibly better than 95% accuracy. I think that may be a conservative estimate.
Problems:
1) A user file I just migrated from DNS 9.5 cannot be loaded. And furthermore, now that I've attempted to load it, it is listed in the 'select user' dialog, but cannot be used or deleted. Instead I've successfully created a new user, and it is running smoothly. Except:
2) I successfully transcribed 83 pages 2 nights ago, very pleased with DNS 10's performance on this, and when completed with dictation I attempted to save the user. User file save failed. This has never happened with previous versions.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving."-- Dale Carnegie
How true. I'm going to take Mr. Carnegie with me on my upcoming vacation.
I meant to reply to this
I meant to reply to this some time ago.
First, you don't have DNS 10 (i.e., it's very obvious from your comment that you don't).
You're absolutely right, I do not have DNS 10. I have 9.5. I would not purchase DNS 10 until all the glitches are ironed out. There are enough reported on this site to put me off. My experience with Nuance (reported on another thread) tells me that I would not want to deal with them, and I certainly have no intention of paying for service on what is a defective product.
Second, the problem is not as pervasive as it appears. As you well know users generally don't report successes. Therefore, the emphasis is always on problems vs. successes.
I am sure there must be others out there who are not members of this group, and do not know about it, and had/have to rely on Nuance and pay their exorbitant charges in order to resolve the installation problems.
Third, the problem is not with DNS itself or the DNS install, the problem lies with the Visual C++ runtime for Dragon NaturallySpeaking, which is simply Visual C++ runtime library 2008. In DNS 10, this is a prerequisite in order to support some of the new features as well as providing support for Net Framework.
If there is incompatibility of a product with the most commonly used OS, then it is up to the manufacturer of that product to take such steps as are necessary to create compatibility.
If that is the only problem, then Nuance should have been aware of it with proper testing. If they had tested installations on numerous machines, surely one of them would have shown up the installation problems. If they had been following the threads on this group, then they would be fully aware of it, and should provide free resolutions. Assuming all users are registered with them, it is not unreasonable to expect that they would communicate with all purchasers and inform them of the problem, and offer the necessary free of charge assistance to rectify.
However my experience with Nuance is that they do not interest themselves in customers problems.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving."-- Dale Carnegie
One can be understanding and forgiving if a mistake is made, and all necessary assistance is given to rectify it. One need not be understanding or forgiving if having made a mistake, assistance is made as difficult as possible.
Quentin
NOT DNS causing the issues, but Vista itself
Sorry Honey63, but the problem occurs on both Vista (my home pc) and Windows XP (my work pc). The biggest problem I've run into is lack of any response from Nuance's customer service. I just bought the product and they want me to pay $9.95 for tech support. All I wanted to know was if an install disk that worked without a hassle was being developed - but they have nothing to say at all.
"provided that DNS 10
"provided that DNS 10 actually is that much of an improvement."
I can't personally say if DNS 10 is an improvement over earlier versions as this is the first time I've ever used it. And to be honest, had I not had a coupon for a major discount, I simply would never have even considered buying it! We're on a military income, and while DNS is saving me some pain, I simply couldn't have afforded it at full price. But I DO love the program and I've actually recommended it to 3 friends so far and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to others. The only downside I've personally experienced is the installation problems. When you get past those issues, it's a great program!
DNS 10 Review
The upgrade installation issues have probably been covered at this point but we've had pretty good luck with DNS 10 installations when we removed the previous version of DNS before attempting the Ver. 10 upgrade. Our KnowBrainer Installation/Training Guide includes a step by step on the upgrade process. However, for those of you who are still on the fence about whether or not to upgrade… perhaps our NaturallySpeaking 10 Review will offer some insight. Because we are Nuance partners you may have to consider our review with a grain of salt but we think you'll find that we cover both the pros and cons.
Lunis Orcutt - Developer of KnowBrainer &
Host of the http://www.TheMicrophoneStore.com
A Nuance Gold Certified Endorsed Dragon NaturallySpeaking Partner/Trainer
ALWAYS Ask If Your Speech Recognition Partner Is Nuance Certified
KnowBrainer wrote: Because
Because we are Nuance partners you may have to consider our review with a grain of salt
How come when we do a search of the Nuance Partner locator for Tennessee on the Nuance web site at:
http://www.nuance.com/partners/solutions/locator/d...
the KnowBrainer and Lunis name do not appear? Can you help us refine our search so your name or company name appears?
--
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
The best microphones for Speech Recognition
Read, "Key Steps to High Speech Recognition Accuracy
Repeatedly Asked and Answered
How come when we do a search of the Nuance Partner locator for Tennessee on the Nuance web KnowBrainer and Lunis name do not appear? Can you help us refine our search so your name or company name appears?
You have asked and we have answered this question many times on many forums and as you frequently point out, you have a number of contacts at Nuance, so you should be more than well aware that we are the world's largest reseller of NaturallySpeaking Professional and that Nuance is several years behind on updating the partner locator. We have also informed you, on numerous occasions, that we are part of ICP which was renamed to A Zone Squared some time ago. You will find a Nashville address for ICP on the partner locator. That is the KnowBrainer division of ICP. KnowBrainer, ICP and A Zone Squared are all the same company.
Lunis Orcutt - Developer of KnowBrainer &
Host of the http://www.TheMicrophoneStore.com
A Nuance Gold Certified Endorsed Dragon NaturallySpeaking Partner/Trainer
ALWAYS Ask If Your Speech Recognition Partner Is Nuance Certified
KnowBrainer wrote: you have
you have a number of contacts at Nuance, so you should be more than well aware that we are the world's largest reseller of NaturallySpeaking Professional
And of course you can prove that claim? The contacts I have think something less of you than you think of yourself.
and that Nuance is several years behind on updating the partner locator.
If you have been such a big Dragon VAR all these years of course you would have been on the list when it was created.
We have also informed you, on numerous occasions, that we are part of ICP which was renamed to A Zone Squared some time ago. You will find a Nashville address for ICP on the partner locator. That is the KnowBrainer division of ICP.
The references we find for ICP in a Google search are:
1. International Center for Photography
2. Insane Clown Posse
A Google search for "A Zone Squared" turns up nothing. You'd think the "World's largest reseller of Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional" would show up in a search for the references you make?
I have an idea to shut me up permanently about questioning your alleged credentials. Why don't you send the documentation that Knowbrainer/Lunis Orcutt is a Gold Certified Dragon Partner and the worlds largest reseller of Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional to an independent person. My suggestion, Skip Taylor the moderator of this list. I can then put Skip in touch with the right people to authenticate your documentation.
--
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
The best microphones for Speech Recognition
Read, "Key Steps to High Speech Reco
Huh?
What does any of this have to do with version 10? Can't we keep these disputes off of this site?
Matt Chambers wrote: What
What does any of this have to do with version 10? Can't we keep these disputes off of this site?
This is not a dispute. It is a matter of claims that are unsupported. When a person says they are the largest seller or super certified, should this not be documented? If it goes without questioning, then innocent users may be misled to a web site run by unscrupulous people.
--
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
The best microphones for Speech Recognition
Read, "Key Steps to High Speech Recognition
I have contacted Nuance and
I have contacted Nuance and am awaiting a reply from their legal department on what can be said publicly about this.
With that said, let's drop the subject.
Skip
I don't need to hear anymore
I don't need to hear anymore -- received my DNS Pro 10 disk today and installed it without a hitch. Works slicker than, well, any other SR product around. It does look like they had the time and incentive to put a little more work into the Pro version. Hopefully they'll get the Preferred install worked out real soon now.
Bruce
my impressions of DNS 10
if they're long time since I have made a significant contribution to this site so I figured with all the help that people have given me over the years I could take some time to write down my first impressions of Dragon NaturallySpeaking 10 professional.
Let me give you just a little bit of information about my background so that you know the perspective from which I'm writing this review. I have been a long time user of speech recognition technology from the days of DragonDictate. I have a physical disability and therefore the use of Dragon NaturallySpeaking is my only method of text input that is practical for large projects including both personal and work endeavors. I have worked as a clinical psychologist intern and resident for several years and therefore have to reduce professional reports when at work. I am currently running version 10 on a quad core Intel-based CPU with 4 GB of memory and I use Windows XP as an operating system. Prior this version of Dragon naturally speaking I was using 9.5 preferred on a daily basis.
I have had no problems at all installing the new version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking on my Windows XP system. The accuracy for me has been noticeable improvement for example, when using 9.5 in dictating my address, which for obvious reasons I will not post here
the old version consistently made errors the new version does not. I have not changed my and dictating equipment or my dictation style between versions. Dragon's response time in terms of outputting text correctly to the screen is also much faster in this version. I also have appreciated the ability to format text with single utterances rather than multiple commands. I am noticing such a big improvement in my accuracy that I very rarely have to make a correction that is not my fault. By this I mean that, because of my cerebral palsy there are occasions when I stutter or my enunciation is not clear and because of this a transcription error is produced. In the course of typing this entire review however I have only had one error that in my estimation was produced by the softwa and not my own pronunciation.
One final note for those that are still using the preferred version of the software I had been using preferred for years and told myself that the upgrade to professional was not worth it because macro capability would not be that important to me and it would be difficult to learn a programming language required to produce macros. I was wrong on both points macro programming is so simple in the latest version of professionals at it really is just a matter of using the macro recorder. I.e. pressing record on the screen and then performing the required keystrokes or mouse movements that you want to be in the macro. Because I have not used previous versions professional I don't know how long this macro recording capability has been around but I have already produced several macros with this method and I look forward to implementing it to further improve my work flow when I start work after I get my license. In all of these areas I have found version 10 to be a worthwhile upgrade although I must admit that after reading the posts here I decided not to try installing it on my Vista laptop. I hope this was helpful to some.
Regards
Ryan Skelton