Vocola 2.6 and keystroke functions
Submitted by MikeJ on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 23:14.
Hello everyone!
I have been running Vocola 2.6 for a couple of months now and it has been running just fine, with some obvious improvements. I am noticing one peculiar behavior however so I wanted to report it here in case anyone else is seeing the same thing.
I am noticing that some of my macros are not working because certain keystroke sequences, which used to work with the old version, are no longer functioning with the new version.
For instance, the following macros no longer work:
open task manager = {ctrl+shift+esc} ;
open start menu = {ctrl+esc} ;
I have also had other various keystroke sequences that involve the alt key not work as well, though I don't remember at the moment what they were. What I do remember is that the solution was to change the keystroke sequence from a sequence to individual keystrokes, like so: {alt+a} would become {alt}a. The first sequence wouldn't not work and the second sequence would. Obviously I cannot use the same "fix" on the sequences that use the control key, so I'm a bit stuck for those.
When I manually type of these keystroke sequences, of course, they work just fine -- so I know there isn't something wrong with my computer.
Is anyone else experiencing this?
Mike
Quote: For instance, the
For instance, the following macros no longer work:
open task manager = {ctrl+shift+esc} ;
open start menu = {ctrl+esc} ;
I can certainly confirm that I cannot get these commands to work with 2.6.... on the other hand I have not used them on previous versions and do not know if they would have worked there or not.
What I have done, is to put process Explorer on the start menu and simply say "open process Explorer" or say "start menu" to operate the necessary commands.
Regards
Mark
Mark, Thanks for the
Mark,
Thanks for the reply!
I used these macros quite frequently with the previous version of Vocola, so I can absolutely confirm that they USED to work.
I suppose that using the command "start menu" would probably work just fine, but I hate using a "heard word" command when a keystroke sequence should be able to be used instead. The latter is simply much more efficient.
And besides, this seems to be a regression in terms of functionality so I thought it was best to bring it to light. I am glad to hear that it is not just happening to me and is therefore not an isolated incident on my computer or installation of Vocola.
Mike
Well, there have always been
Well, there have always been two ways to send keystrokes:
-the "hard" way, like when you touch the keyboard
-the "soft" way, used by default by most macro facilities, like AdvancedScript, Unimacro, Vocola.
The "soft" way is much faster, so sending a bunch of keystrokes the "hard" way would be a waist of time.
Some keys however, and ctrl+esc is one of them, require the "hard" way though. So if this keystroke combination worked with a previous version of Vocola, Vocola propably sent these keystrokes the "hard" way. And does not do so any longer in the new release.
The solution:
-AdvancedScript: Use SendSystemKeys
-Vocola: also use SendSystemKeys
-Unimacro: use SSK or configure the actions to do keys with esc the hard way. Actually it is done this way in unimacro, I believe, so you should not have noticed this when using unimacro.
Windows key:
-it is also possible to use the windows key, for example in unimacro with WINKEY (see unimacro shorthand commands.
Greetings, Quintijn
but I hate using a "heard word" command
but I hate using a "heard word" command
"Start menu" and "open process Explorer" are natural Dragon NaturallySpeaking commands and do not require the use of "heard word"... as long as process Explorer is on your start menu... I am not sure how this would work with task manager unless you can find the run command for this process.
Interesting that, I was able to say start menu in that sentence, but when I say it after a pause, the start menu comes up!
Mark
SendSystemKeys, per
SendSystemKeys, per Quintijn's suggestion, works just fine so I guess I can stick with that. Still would like to know why normal keystrokes (some of them) stopped working in this release though.
And to answer your final observation, DNS commands are never recognized as commands (unless they are punctuation) when spoken in an uninterrupted fashion (as part of a sentence, etc.). You have to pause before and after commands for them to be recognized as such.
That is why you have a variable delay with respect to pauses surrounding commands in the DNS properties.
Mike
MarkUK wrote: Interesting
Interesting that, I was able to say start menu in that sentence, but when I say it after a pause, the start menu comes up!
Mark
Just noticed your comment. This behavior is natural. An utterance requires a pause (which can be adjusted in "Options") before and after so that DNS recognizes it as a command. Otherwise, by design, its treated as part of the text stream.
Bruce
Hmm. I can't get them to
Hmm. I can't get them to work either under 2.6. I don't think I altered the hard/soft status of keys so I'm mystified why this would not work now and have worked previously. I will investigate...
I have just verified that:
I have just verified that:
natlink.playString("{ctrl+shift+esc}")
does not in fact work. Given that, I am sorely puzzled how any earlier version of Vocola could ever have worked.
Mike, did you change
Mike,
did you change anything else between the time the macros last worked and when they didn't? new operating system? New PC? new version of DNS?
I'm wondering if "open task manager" is a command under DNS/Unimarco/one of the third party command packages.
do these commands work for anyone else?
- Mark
Mark, The answers to all of
Mark,
The answers to all of your questions is no.
All I did was install the upgrade over the top of the previous install, per the instructions. Haven't had any other issues other than this.
I confess that I have not tried a complete uninstall and reinstall. Not sure even how to do that...
Mike
According to my previous
According to my previous message I am very surprised a simple ctrl+esc (in the soft way) has ever worked. I should not worry any more though, and do these simple the "hard" way.
Quintijn
Can you try commenting out
Can you try commenting out those Vocola macros and see if they still work/get recognized as commands?
I'm wondering if you had/have some non-Vocola commands using SendSystemKeys.
I am experiencing regular
I am experiencing regular problems with the latest version of Vocola/Unimacro but not exactly the same as described and I believe it was not happening a month or so ago when I first upgraded. What mainly seems to be happening is that the last part of several commands (I believe all in Word except 1 or 2 in Excel), some, but not all, based on VBA macros, is not being carried out. It appears the final "Enter" is being ignored, here are a couple of examples of this "stuttering":
Make English = {Alt+f8} MakeEnglish{Alt+R};
VBA part
Sub MakeEnglish()
'
' MakeEnglish Macro
' Macro recorded 20/08/2006 by Graham
'
Selection.LanguageID = wdEnglishUK
End Sub
Colour Red = {Ctrl+d}{Alt+n}{Alt+c}{Down_3}{Enter}{Tab_14}{Enter};
In the latter case the font colour dialogue box flashes up on the screen but the final "Enter" is not carried out so the command fails (has always worked perfectly up until now), similar things are happening with at least 7-8 other commands, failure rate is around 70%, sometimes I try the first time and it doesn't work, but the second time it does, haven't changed anything in particular as far as I know other than upgrading to IE7 and I can't believe this has anything to do with problem.
Graham
FWIW, while I don't do
FWIW, while I don't do Vocola, I do know in DNS Pro one way to try to circumvent the latter type of problem is to introduce a Wait command, say between {Tab_14} and {Enter}.
HTH,
Bruce
The Wait is one thing to
The Wait is one thing to try. But the enter key is one of the other keys that often need the "hard" way, so Grahams message makes sense that way too.
Quintijn
Thanks for the suggestions,
Thanks for the suggestions, I tried inserting a wait command, but it didn't make any difference, I just tried adding {enter} as follows:
Split Cells = {Alt+a}p{Alt+m} {enter}{enter};
and this has the desired effect, although I fear that if the command is actually executed correctly then problems are likely to arise.
Any further suggestions?
Thanks
Graham
emiliaserv wrote: Any
Any further suggestions?
Since it ain't rocket science or liturgy, I'd just go with what works until it doesn't
The problem with that idea, of course, is that by the time it stops working you'll have forgotten what you did and/or why you did it in the first place
Bruce
What did the original
What did the original version of split cells look like?
Quintijn wrote: But the
But the enter key is one of the other keys that often need the "hard" way
For clarity, '"hard" way' means using SendSystemKey rather than SendKey -- right? I ask so that anyone who trips across this topic in the future won't have to tear his/her metaphorical hair out trying to figure out whether this is a vaguely sexual pun or a specific methodology
Bruce
Right. I did not think of
Right. I did not think of the sexual methodology before...
Quintijn
Update of further
Update of further problems.
In my Word commands file I have:
Make Red = {Alt+f8} ToggleAnts{Alt+R};
Bold Red = {Alt+f8}BoldRed{Alt+R};
Bold Blue = {Alt+f8}BoldBlue{Alt+R};
I just tried to run the first of these three commands and the third one was carried out, I have experienced this behaviour on several occasions over the last few days.
Graham
Did it recognize the wrong
Did it recognize the wrong command or just perform the wrong actions?
Do either of the following
Do either of the following work?
Colour Red = {Ctrl+d}{Alt+n}{Alt+c}{Down_3}{Enter}{Tab_14}
Wait(1000) {Enter};
Colour Red = {Ctrl+d}{Alt+n}{Alt+c}{Down_3}{Enter}{Tab_14}
SendSystemKeys({Enter});
I don't think we can rule
I don't think we can rule out the IE7 installation installing some kind of DLL that changes the timing of Word dialog boxes, alas.
As far as I can tell, Vocola 2.5 and Vocola 2.6 call natlink.playString with the exact same argument for color red so unless there's a bug in a new version of NatLink or Unimacro, it seems highly likely that something else on your system has caused the time difference.
Could this problem be related to cfmon.exe(sp?)?
Quote: What did the
What did the original version of split cells look like?
Split Cells = {Alt+a}p{Alt+m} {enter};
don't think we can rule out the IE7 installation installing some kind of DLL that changes the timing of Word dialog boxes, alas.
Yes I suspect you may be right, I am also experiencing some non-DNS-related erratic behaviour (frequent error messages that I will have to start making a note of) and my simple gut feeling is that something has changed for the worse in terms of overall stability but I can't be sure
Could this problem be related to cfmon
Ctfmon is running, I see that one or two people suggest it be disabled, whilst others do not
Do either of the following work?
Let me try these out and I'll get back to you over the next few days.
Thanks
Graham
emiliaserv wrote: Ctfmon is
Ctfmon is running, I see that one or two people suggest it be disabled, whilst others do not
Oh, I don't think that's true! Pretty much anyone running DNS Pro needs to disable cftmon.exe -- whether that's also true for Vocola/Unimacro users may be moot, but its worth a shot.
I've never seen any DNS maven PRESCRIBE running cftmon.exe, so the absence of a proscription ought NOT to be read as a recommendation for allowing it to run!
Bruce
Perhaps my memory is a
Perhaps my memory is a little hazy as I thought I remembered someone saying it wouldn't make any difference, however I did a quick search and found plenty of suggestions on how to get rid of it, so that does seem to be the consensus. I can give it try but I don't see that it should suddenly be the cause of my problems as nearly all Vocola/Unimacro commands were working up until a few weeks ago.
Before going ahead can anyone confirm that I will still be able to switch keyboard languages if CTFMON is disabled(I have UK, USA and Italian installed)?
Thanks
Graham
PS
This thread mentions problems with IE7
http://www.voicerecognition.com/board/lofiversion/index.php?t19165.html
emiliaserv wrote: Perhaps
Perhaps my memory is a little hazy as I thought I remembered someone saying it wouldn't make any difference, however I did a quick search and found plenty of suggestions on how to get rid of it, so that does seem to be the consensus. I can give it try but I don't see that it should suddenly be the cause of my problems as nearly all Vocola/Unimacro commands were working up until a few weeks ago.
Before going ahead can anyone confirm that I will still be able to switch keyboard languages if CTFMON is disabled(I have UK, USA and Italian installed)?
Thanks
Graham
PS
This thread mentions problems with IE7
http://www.voicerecognition.com/board/lofiversion/index.php?t19165.html
Graham,
Everything can be working fine and then all of a sudden you're commands go to hell in a handbasket. This is a very typical symptom of ctfmon.exe. In fact, this symptom is where the whole collection of threads relative to ctfmon.exe began.
However, don't place too much stock in the information provided in the link that you supplied. IE 7 does not install ctfmon.exe and the problems are not caused by IE 7 relative to ctfmon.exe. That is a bit of old information and basically the explanations and the subsequent threads are incorrect anyway.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee - that will do them in. - Bradley's Bromide
Thanks, I'll be removing in
Thanks, I'll be removing in the next day or so and will then let you know if there is any change, in the meantime I tried the various alternative suggestions for the "colour red" command and unfortunately they did not work.
Graham
Please let us know whether
Please let us know whether or not removing cftmon.exe helps -- it would be a shame to perpetuate this advice if is does no good!
Bruce
Removing or retaining ctfmon.exe
Ctfmon.exe definitely conflicts with macro commands (i.e. Advanced Scripting, Vocola, etc.). While this was not a problem in previous versions of DNS, it is a significant problem in DNS 9/9.1/9.5.
The only reason why it should be retained is if you are using a tablet PC and you require "handwriting" support. Otherwise, get rid of it.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee - that will do them in. - Bradley's Bromide
I removed ctfmon (or at
I removed ctfmon (or at least I thought I did) and all versions of the "colour red" command started working.
Turned on Dragon this morning and it had stopped working, when I looked under processes, I discovered that ctfmon was running again. I had followed KnowBrainer's removal instructions, must have done something wrong, will look at this again later.
Graham
Remove through languages
Remove through languages settings. I repeat from node 1352:
To remove ctfmon.exe if your using Windows XP (...) follow these steps:
- Open "Regional and Language Options" in the control panel
- Click the "Languages" tab
- Click the "Details" button under "Text services and input languages" heading
- Click the "Advanced" tab
- Place a check mark in "Turn off advanced text services" under the "System Configuration" heading
Mike
Greetings, Quintijn
PS Only Windows XP, in Vista this seems not to be necessary any more, I could not find ctfmon.
That's exactly what I did,
That's exactly what I did, however the next time I booted up it was back again, I just looked to see whether "turn off advanced text services" is still ticked and it is, will review the situation next time I boot up.
In the meantime, after switching it off again in "processes", I am still experiencing problems, the following Word command is not being carried out properly:
Give Word Count = {Ctrl+Shift+G};
This has always worked up until now, but instead of giving me the required information, a box is inserted in the text (seems to be called "white square"). If I enter Ctrl+Shift+G using the keyboard the word count is generated.
I would add that the problem is solved by using the alternative:
Give Word Count = {Alt+t}w;
Would still like to know why the other command won't work.
Graham
Further update, ctfmon seems
Further update, ctfmon seems to have been removed, but this has not solved the problem.
Colour Red = {Ctrl+d}{Alt+n}{Alt+c}{Down_3}{Enter}{Tab_14}{Enter};
(or the other variations) is not being carried out correctly, as far as I can see it is interpreted correctly but inserts 14 tab keys, whilst the original "give word count" continues to insert a box.
Graham
emiliaserv wrote: Further
Further update, ctfmon seems to have been removed, but this has not solved the problem.
Colour Red = {Ctrl+d}{Alt+n}{Alt+c}{Down_3}{Enter}{Tab_14}{Enter};
(or the other variations) is not being carried out correctly, as far as I can see it is interpreted correctly but inserts 14 tab keys, whilst the original "give word count" continues to insert a box.
Graham
Obviously something else is going on in your system. The command worked this morning but not now!? It might be some other software/service, but God only knows what at this point.
I guess the clearest way to start is by shutting down all other softwares and seeing if that helps. If so, then add things back one at a time to find the culprit(s).
If not, then try un-installing and then re-installing the Vocola stuff.
If still no go, maybe you could try a "Safe" boot and test that, assuming DNS et al. even work -- but I don't know if even a standard microphone would work in "Safe" mode, surely not your fancy wireless rig.
Good luck!
insert pauses between
insert pauses between keystrokes
Quintijn wrote: insert
insert pauses between keystrokes
He's already reported that didn't work in a prior example (you probably read that), but he didn't report how long of a wait he tried. Sometimes you have to stretch these things out -- for example, where 0.5 seconds won't work, a full second might, etc. You have to experiment to find what works.
Bruce
Hmm, I don't think Gremlins
Hmm, I don't think Gremlins can be ruled out in this case.
As regards inserting a "wait" command, I had used one second, however when this was working, lower times were also working as well, my conclusion is that this has nothing whatsoever to do with the problems I am experiencing.
Today, I tried the "colour red" command and it was working OK, however after a while the command was apparently carried out, but nothing happened (i.e. the text remained black), suddenly things were worse than before, a box was inserted and 14 tab keys.
I agree that something appears to be corrupt, this could be normal dot, Dragon, Vocola/unimacro as likely candidates, IE7 as an outsider or who knows what.
Troubleshooting this is likely to be a long and thankless task.
Graham
Inserting a Wait state
Inserting a Wait state probably isn't the issue, but when you get totally discouraged and want to rule it out, wait till the command is not working and change the wait to some outrageous value like five seconds.
You might also want to compare lists of all running tasks when the command is working vs. not working to see if there is a consistent difference.
This particular problem sounds a bit like a loss of focus issue, i.e., the command is working but not where its supposed to work. I'm not sure what to recommend. The obvious thing is to make sure the application/window where the command is supposed to work is in the foreground when you give the command.
Bruce
PS: I'm suspicious re: the proposed candidates: "normal dot, Dragon, Vocola/unimacro as likely candidates, IE7 as an outsider"