Registering and logging in removes this ad.
Registering and logging in removes this ad.
Need advice--returning to DNS after 5-year hiatus
Submitted by AGV on Mon, 11/26/2007 - 19:38.
Back around 2002, I worked for a while with Dragon Naturally Speaking/6 Preferred, but never really got to the point where I felt comfortable using it, so I just kind of...stopped...And now that I'm getting old and creaky, I'm motivated to try again.
After spelunking online for many hours to find out about the state of the technology these days, though, I'm more confused than ever. My original plan was to install my old DNS/6 Preferred on my current system and spend a couple of weeks getting reacquainted with it before I put any money into upgrading. OTOH, upgrading might address the frustrations (poor accuracy, limited voice commands) that made me run out of patience with Dragon the first time around.
If I upgrade, though, I have to figure out whether I can continue to get away with Preferred--or do I really need Pro? (Or maybe Preferred with the KnowBrainer command software and/or VoicePower {and/or UniVoice--what about that?}...uh...maybe that would be better than Pro without the add-ons?) And then there's all that stuff in the KB forums about tweaking the software to fix problems with default settings...
I am so. totally. baffled. Would anyone out there like to suggest, very nicely and using small, easily understood words, how best to get from here to the place where I am a happy self-actualized VR user? I would be so utterly grateful for guidance.
I'm a freelance medical writer/editor. About 90% of my work is done in Word 2003. I also do book design in Word, so I need access to style-based commands (eg, not "bold that" but "format that Heading 3.") I use Firefox and Thunderbird for Web/e-mail access. I have a Dell Dimension 5100 running Windows Media Center Ed 2002/SP2; Pentium 4 @ 2.8GHz; 2.5GB RAM; Soundblaster Live! 24-bit; Plantronics DSP500 USB headset/microphone. (I also have a Sony ICD-MS515 digital recorder, which was supposed to be a compatible dictation device for DNS/6 Preferred, but I never actually got around to trying it, and frankly I have my doubts.)
Suggestions? Please?
AGV, The latest version of
AGV,
The latest version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking, version 9 is vastly improved over Dragon version 6. It uses speech algorithms that analyze groups of four words as well as groups of three words into words. This makes the probability of Dragon NaturallySpeaking figuring out the word likelier.
I actually got fairly good results with Dragon version 6. There are some basics that can help you attain high accuracy very quickly. Here they are:
If you are new to speech recognition and Dragon NaturallySpeaking, we have several resources on our website to help you become successful very quickly. These are:
1. Listen to the three sound files on our Links/Articles page on How to Sound and How Not to Sound. Although Dragon NaturallySpeaking may be continuous speech recognition, it is certainly not conversational speech recognition. Here is a link to the page:
http://www.emicrophones.com/articles/index.asp
2. Also, take a few minutes to read the short article, underneath the three sound files at the above page, titled "Key Steps to High Speech Recognition Accuracy for PC Users."
3. In our frequently asked question/dragon subsection is the question, "How should I train a new user in Dragon NaturallySpeaking?"
http://www.emicrophones.com/faq_answer.asp?content...
I suggest you print this out and follow the directions for creating a new user profile when you get your new microphone. You can ignore step four if you already have Dragon version 9.x
4. When you make corrections, make them in context of the words around them. Select the 2 or 3 words around the misrecognition and say "Correct That." This way the software learns in terms of the context.
We definitely prefer VoicePower to KnowBrainer commands. Although KnowBrainer has 10,000 commands, it is very difficult to find them as you were working. VoicePower works in a window right next to your active window. He contains the active commands for that window. As you change to another window, commands in the help window change. It is like having a tutor sitting right alongside you.
--
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
The best microphones for Speech Recognition
Martin, thanks--this is very helpful.
If you are new to speech recognition and Dragon NaturallySpeaking, we have several resources on our website to help you become successful very quickly.
I found links to the first two of these last week when I was browsing the KnowBrainer forum, so I've listened to the sound files and printed out the "Key Steps," but I don't think I read the "How should I train a new user" article. I'll add that to my resources.
I suggest you print this out and follow the directions for creating a new user profile when you get your new microphone.
So I guess you're telling me that my Plantronics headset/microphone doesn't really cut it? Is my sound card probably okay? It's listed as being one of the approved ones in the "Key Steps" article.
4. When you make corrections, make them in context of the words around them. Select the 2 or 3 words around the misrecognition and say "Correct That." This way the software learns in terms of the context.
This is good to know. The ScanSoft manual that came with DNS/6 recommended this procedure, but only because it's easier for Dragon to find the misrecognized term when I give it a few more words to hunt for. This makes sense to me.
As for the bit about KnowBrainer versus VoicePower commands--oh dear. This is where I get hung up. I already found and printed out the installation manual for DNS9/KnowBrainer 2006, and I read some of the Quick Tips and bookmarked the page. I'm impressed with the depth and scope of incredibly valuable information here, particularly since Nuance's tech support policies are not generous; at the same time, I found some of the fixes pretty daunting (ack! edit my registry? me?), and the language in which the instructions were written was not always easy for me to follow.
What makes VoicePower sound attractive is the impression I get that it will hold my hand and help me keep my anxiety levels tolerable, which is particularly important to me in the early phase of learning DNS when I'm likely to be most frustrated. OTOH, it may be that I need KnowBrainer's 10,000 commands, if only because commands 9,953 through 9,960 are the ones that turn out to be invaluable in my work.
I read the comparative reviews of the two products with interest. I'm still not sure just where I'll fall out in this regard.
So I guess you're telling me
So I guess you're telling me that my Plantronics headset/microphone doesn't really cut it? Is my sound card probably okay?
Your sound card is probably really good (I had a SoundBlaster 24 Live!, it was great). Your mike is of course currently bypassing it so you can't really tell how good it is... So if you think you need a new mike, you have a choice; you can opt for a non-USB one or stay with USB
Judy
Judy Evans wrote: Your
Your sound card is probably really good (I had a SoundBlaster 24 Live!, it was great). Your mike is of course currently bypassing it so you can't really tell how good it is...
Ah. I see (sort of). So if it plugs into a USB port it bypasses and if it plugs into the microphone jack it doesn't?
Trying to assimilate a lot of new esoterica here...
So if it plugs into a USB
So if it plugs into a USB port it bypasses and if it plugs into the microphone jack it doesn't?
Yes -- a USB mike/pod has/is an external sound card.
Judy
AGV wrote: I found links to
I found links to the first two of these last week when I was browsing the KnowBrainer forum, so I've listened to the sound files and printed out the "Key Steps," but I don't think I read the "How should I train a new user" article. I'll add that to my resources.
Unfortunately you will not find me and my alternative resources to KnowBrainer at the KnowBrainer forum. He banned me because he feels I compete with him. It's a long story and you can see more at the Dragon Forum if you wish.
So I guess you're telling me that my Plantronics headset/microphone doesn't really cut it? Is my sound card probably okay? It's listed as being one of the approved ones in the "Key Steps" article.
Not at all. For basic correspondence and e-mail, and if you work in a fairly quiet environment, the Plantronics may be just fine. The only reason to get a better microphone is if you're doing professional level dictation where you must live by your words in a time sensitive sense and legally. A better microphone can yield 1-2% fewer mistakes. This means if you were dictating 5000 words a day, you can save 50-100 corrections which can be anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes saved.
OTOH, it may be that I need KnowBrainer's 10,000 commands, if only because commands 9,953 through 9,960 are the ones that turn out to be invaluable in my work.
Like you, I only require several custom commands for use during my daily activities. What I did was read Larry Allen's book, Scripting for Dragon NaturallySpeaking 9 which has easy to follow examples. You need not be a programming professional to understand and to write simple command macros.
--
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
The best microphones for Speech Recognition
Read, "Key Steps to High Speech Recognition"
Martin Markoe
Unfortunately you will not find me and my alternative resources to KnowBrainer at the KnowBrainer forum.
[Hastily stuffing worms back into can:]
Beg pardon. Once I start clicking links, I often lose track of where I've gotten to. I must have found the link somewhere else.
A better microphone can yield 1-2% fewer mistakes. This means if you were dictating 5000 words a day, you can save 50-100 corrections which can be anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes saved.
Thanks for the clarification. The time saved is one issue; the frustration saved is another, and sometimes it's the weightier one in the final cost-benefit analysis. I will keep it in mind.
We agree with Marty's
We agree with Marty's assessment about the VoicePower
commands being easier to recognize because of the extensive help files but
you might want to keep in mind that the biggest difference between the $200 SRP
Preferred and $900 SRP Professional version of NaturallySpeaking is the
ability to add personal advanced scripting commands. KnowBrainer isn't just a collection of
11,000 commands. It includes a Command
Browser to support newer technology and add personal commands (on the fly)
plus the new 50,000 word vocabulary which is 1 third of the size of the Ver.
9 vocabulary. Smaller vocabularies can
increase both DNS accuracy and speed.
You can also upgrade from Preferred 6 to Preferred
9.5 for $99 and receive a free copy of our step-by-step training guide
along with our virtual on-site technical support. Speech recognition Technical Support Forums
such as SpeechComputing and KnowBrainer Speech Recognition
Forum are open 24 hours a day so help is just around the corner.
KnowBrainer just added a number of
formatting macros such as Title Back
and Bold Back etc… Example: You can
highlight a phrase in the middle of a paragraph and say Underline Back to underline the phrase and return the cursor to
the end of the paragraph where you were dictating. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
There is no reason to memorize the 11,000
KnowBrainer commands. All you need is
the 20 or so that are going to make a significant impact on your efficiency.
Lunis Orcutt - Developer of
KnowBrainer &
Host of the
KnowBrainer Speech Recognition Forum
A Nuance Gold Certified Endorsed Vendor
ALWAYS Ask If Your Speech Recognition Vendor Is Nuance
Certified
Lunis--can you clarify for me?...
You can also upgrade from Preferred 6 to Preferred
9.5 for $99 and receive a free copy of our step-by-step training guide
along with our virtual on-site technical support.
Nuance considers Version 6 one iteration too old to qualify as an upgradeable product, so I've been assuming I'll need to buy the full version. To be honest, I'd intended to put off agonizing over this purchase decision until later in December when my calendar opens up a bit; if I buy the thing right now, I'm not even going to have time to install it for at least 3 weeks. But [ahem] a big-box retailer just put DNS/9 Preferred on sale for $99, and [embarrassed cough] even though I know that big-box retailers are evil faceless zombies who contribute nothing to the software-using community and don't give a hoot about my problems with the program after I walk out the door, um...[small guilty voice]...the purchasing agent in this one-person home office finds the sale price hard to ignore. [/small guilty voice]
So would I actually be eligible to purchase the upgrade version from you? If so, I'm going to get back to my regularly scheduled program (urgent deadline, impending vacation) and check back in a couple of weeks.
KnowBrainer isn't just a collection of 11,000 commands. It includes a Command Browser to support newer technology and add personal commands (on the fly)...
Does this mean that KnowBrainer would allow me to create my own commands as needed (eg, the aforementioned "format that Heading 3") even if I were using it with Preferred rather than Pro? Or am I misunderstanding you here? Inquiring minds are confused, but hopeful.
...plus the new 50,000 word vocabulary which is 1 third of the size of the Ver. 9 vocabulary. Smaller vocabularies can increase both DNS accuracy and speed.
Yes, you know--this was one of the most interesting pieces of information I picked up as I was browsing your site, but it brought up another question in my mind. It absolutely makes logical sense to aim for a trim, relevant vocabulary; but does that mean I should set up different users (with different user vocabularies) for the different types of writing I do? Are the vocabularies Dragon draws on user-specific? 'Cuz I know that when I'm writing essays or casual e-mails, I use language, syntax, contractions (eg, "'cuz") that I'd never use in my technical writing--and vice versa. (Please feel free to point me to existing information rather than taking the time to answer what's already been explained elsewhere. I'm trying to collect all of this information where I'll be able to lay my hands on it when I need it going forward.)
BTW, I just want to add that I am awed by the generosity of all of the technical experts, like you and Martin et al, who rescue folks like me by sharing their knowledge in user forums like this. I really do appreciate it.
Nuance only permits
Nuance only permits upgrading from 2
versions back in their professional line of software but advertised 3
versions in their spam they shot out last year so you won't have any legal trouble
upgrading if you decide to do so.
Whichever way you decide to go it is no big deal as the upgrade
profits are somewhat marginal and the full boxed copy includes a fabulous
microphone
Note: We don’t believe Marty's
recommendation to purchase Larry Allen’s Scripting Guide will be of much use
to you if you're using DNS Preferred because it is designed exclusively for
the professional versions of NaturallySpeaking. However, KnowBrainer
2006 includes end-user Advanced-Scripting capability and the VerbalBasic
Manual (verbal command writing guide).
Does
this mean that KnowBrainer would allow me to create my own commands as needed
(eg, the aforementioned "format that Heading 3") even if I were
using it with Preferred rather than Pro? Or am I misunderstanding you here?
Inquiring minds are confused, but hopeful.
YES, one of the major advantages of
KnowBrainer over VoicePower is the ability to create personal advanced
scripting commands. This is the single
most popular reason why DNS Pro retails for $900 and DNS Preferred retails
for $200. DNS Pro includes additional
professional amenities like network/Citrix support, multiple vocabularies and
a Roaming user profile but the most compelling reason we hear from people who
purchase DNS Pro is it’s ability to create specialized commands and that
feature is included with KnowBrainer and along with 11,000 pre-fab commands
that you can edit or copy to suit your specific needs).
Note that VoicePower is an excellent
product but we believe it was constructed with the Nuance SDK which strictly
prohibits third-party developers from adding end-user macro capabilities to
their product. KnowBrainer was not
constructed with the NaturallySpeaking SDK (for just this reason), is under
no such constraints and actually predates NaturallySpeaking’s existence.
but does that mean I should set up different users (with different user
vocabularies) for the different types of writing I do? Are the vocabularies
Dragon draws on user-specific? 'Cuz I know that when I'm writing essays or
casual e-mails, I use language, syntax, contractions (eg, "'cuz")
that I'd never use in my technical writing--and vice versa.
There are 2 schools of thought on this type
of usage. Yes, NaturallySpeaking would
be a little more accurate if you maintain 2 separate specialized vocabularies
but this is only possible in DNS Pro. In
DNS Preferred you would have to create a separate user profile for each vocabulary
which isn't the most user-friendly way we can think of to work. You can acquire a little higher accuracy by
maintaining 2 separate user profiles in DNS Preferred but there is a
trade-off. Every time you make a
correction or add a new word/phrase to your vocabulary you will have to
repeat the process if you need the same phrase in your other user
profile. By splitting your time up
between 2 profiles you'll only be saving your user profiles half as much
which may hose the benefits. We
understand that you basically wear 2 different hats but most end-users find
it easier to keep it simple by combining both writing styles, when possible,
into a single user profile. I
typically do speech recognition shop talk throughout the week but put on my
musician hat on the weekend, which includes a lot of specialized recording
studio terms, and even though I use DNS Pro (which is multi-vocabulary
capable) I still find it preferable to use a single user profile for both
professions.
Lunis Orcutt - Developer
of KnowBrainer &
Host of
the KnowBrainer Speech Recognition Forum
A Nuance Gold Certified Endorsed Vendor
ALWAYS Ask If Your Speech Recognition Vendor Is Nuance Certified
My 2 Cents worth...
I've decided to put in my comments on this to help clarify some things that need it.
That's about 5 cents worth, but I won't bill you for the extra 3 cents.
Skip
Thoughts from a vocola and unimacro user
I currently use Dragon Preferred 9.5 with vocola and unimacro. I also have both voice power and no-brainer, more on them later. I use several different applications in my job as a product manager, both commercial such as Microsoft Office and in-house developed applications. I'm fairly technical.
Before I found out about add-on tools, I was struggling just like you describe. Then I discovered vocola, which allowed me to write my own commands quite easily. You basically map speech utterances to a set of keystrokes, but you can do a lot more as well. I found myself writing a lot of commands, which finally allowed me to use all my tools. However, I was reinventing the wheel when it came to commands for using commercial applications. Add-ons such as voice power and no-brainer already include a whole bunch of commands. I was also reinventing the wheel when it came to standard commands for navigating folders, websites, and making keystrokes. Unimacro already includes the most important commands.
On the positive side commercial add-ons save you time. On the negative side, you might not need that many custom commands. For example, I have maybe 10 or 15 commands for Microsoft Outlook that I use all the time. These are vocola commands. Then there are some key commands for navigating folders, switching tasks and editing text, which are unimacro commands. Sometimes I'm not actually sure which add-on a particular command belongs to...
When it comes to voice power versus no-brainer neither of them really fits my needs. I have a fairly good grasp of what I can do with Dragon NaturallySpeaking, so I can survive without the voice power tutorials, and I have the free tools for writing my own commands, so I can also survive without no-brainer. Having said that, I have been using voice power occasionally. It adds some functionality that is not covered in neither vocola nor unimacro, and also adds commands for commercial tools. I also wish I had known about voice power when I was starting with voice recognition as I'm certain its tutorials would have saved a lot of time and grief. I do not have any experience with using no-brainer for writing commands, so cannot comment on its strengths in that area.
Per
Can I suggest that you
Can I suggest that you simply go out and buy Preferred from whatever source you prefer... the advantage of a VAR is that they understand the product and can give you support.. but so will other users on these forums.
Simply use it, use the vocabulary to add the words and phrases you need in your work and then find out if you really do need to spend more money on extra canned commands and, if so, if those commands are already in voicepower or Knowbrainer then one of those might be a logical buy. But if you only need one or two extra commands, going for pro or one of those would be gross overkill and you can probably get the same for nix with Vocola or UniMacro, with plenty of support from the users on this site.
Martin and Lunis give very sound advice, but they are in business and I get the feeling that the relationship is a bit strained at the moment.
Mark
This has been tremendously useful!
When I posted here earlier in the week, I never imagined I'd get so much valuable information. It's great to see that speech recognition has such a vital community supporting it--I really had no idea.
I wanted to post a general thanks, since my schedule has gotten so frantic these past few days, I haven't been able to respond to each new comment. I'll be disappearing for a couple of weeks as I head out for a vacation, but I have all of your responses coming in to my e-mail, and I'm saving all of this information to refer to as I go forward. Please know that I'm taking notes, and will continue to do so!
I particularly appreciate the encouragement to stick with it through the initial learning curve, which is at least as helpful to me as the specific advice. I hope others who are in a similar situation find this thread similarly valuable.
If I don't have time to pop in again before I leave, see you all in mid-December!
Tamia/AGV