How do you enter text into Excel 2003 on XP SP2 using DNS Pro 9?
Submitted by BruceCyr on Fri, 04/27/2007 - 15:23.
Yeah, what it says. I used to be a big DNS/Excel user, but now I can't even dictate text into a cell. I can enter numbers purely because I have long-standing macros that still work, but I can't get text into Excel by dictation.
PS: I know its the macros, because its a bunch of templates suggested by Larry Allen and Chad Traeger which involve a number string followed by an arrow command to move to an adjacent cell. If I just dictate a number or text, nada.
Saying "edit cell" or "press function 2" doesn't work either. Looks like the two apps don't communicate with each other any more 
TIA,
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: Yeah, what
Yeah, what it says. I used to be a big DNS/Excel user, but now I can't even dictate text into a cell. I can enter numbers purely because I have long-standing macros that still work, but I can't get text into Excel by dictation.
PS: I know its the macros, because its a bunch of templates suggested by Larry Allen and Chad Traeger which involve a number string followed by an arrow command to move to an adjacent cell. If I just dictate a number or text, nada.
Saying "edit cell" or "press function 2" doesn't work either. Looks like the two apps don't communicate with each other any more
TIA,
Bruce
Bruce,
First, Microsoft Excel has never been Select-and-Say enabled. Therefore, there are certain things that you can and certain things that you can't do.
First, if you wanted dictate text into a cell in Microsoft Excel (version independent), don't open the cell with edit or F2. That effectively kills any dictation directly into the cell itself. If you do that, then you have to do all your dictation into the formula bar.
Second, if you simply highlight a cell and begin dictating, you should be able to dictate into that cell. However, keep in mind that because Excel is not Select-and-Say enabled, DNS only remembers your last utterance. In nonstandard Windows (applications) the speech buffer only retains the last utterance and doesn't know where any other text is located. Therefore, you can't select anything that you have dictated and then either typed over, replaced, corrected, or if you have moved on to the next utterance.
I've been using Excel for years and have a lot of spreadsheets for various projects that I work on a regular basis. Despite the limitations, I have no problems dictating anywhere in Microsoft Excel given the above requirements and limitations. I currently use DNS 9.5, and previously 9.1, with Microsoft Excel 2003 and Microsoft Excel 2007.
Perhaps if you describe in more detail exactly what you're doing and when you have the problem, or whether it occurs all the time regardless of the above conditions, perhaps I can figure out what's going on and help you out.
Chuck Runquist
Former DNS SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
If you hear the sound of hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.
Law of Parsimony (Occam's razor)
Chuck, What I am precisely
Chuck,
What I am precisely doing is highlighting a cell and attempting to dictate into it -- nothing happens -- nada zip zilch. Saying "edit cell" or "press function two" is a last-ditch desperation device. This failure to dictate happens all the time under all conditions.
Following your suggestion, I am able to dictate into the formula bar, but that's the only way I can get text into it. I guess that's a workaround but it's a far cry from my previous functionality with previous versions of Excel and DNS. The only thing that works as it used to work are all of my macros.
Bruce
PS: I didn't say anything regarding Select and Say -- at this point I'd settle for unadorned dictation.
BruceCyr wrote: Chuck, What
Chuck,
What I am precisely doing is highlighting a cell and attempting to dictate into it -- nothing happens -- nada zip zilch. Saying "edit cell" or "press function two" is a last-ditch desperation device. This failure to dictate happens all the time under all conditions.
Following your suggestion, I am able to dictate into the formula bar, but that's the only way I can get text into it. I guess that's a workaround but it's a far cry from my previous functionality with previous versions of Excel and DNS. The only thing that works as it used to work are all of my macros.
Bruce
PS: I didn't say anything regarding Select and Say -- at this point I'd settle for unadorned dictation.
Bruce,
I realize that you didn't say anything regarding Select-and-Say. However, the problem that you are having is related to the lack of Select-and-Say availability in Microsoft Excel. I personally have had no problems with any version of DNS, including 9.5, with Microsoft Excel 2003 or 2007. However, trying to track down the reasons why you're having a problem really involves getting some more information from you.
When dictation doesn't work where it is expected, the reasons for such are recorded in the Dragon log.
Do a dictation session in a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet that is giving you this problem, then copy and paste the section from the Dragon log for the last session where this problem occurred. Let me take a look at that and see if I can diagnose what's going on based on the entries in the Dragon log.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change. - Stephen Hawking
Chuck, I dutifully raced
Chuck,
I dutifully raced over to Microsoft Excel 2003 to try out your suggestion. Unfortunately I ran into a serious problem -- it accepts text without a problem today
Ah! I said. It must be that the old worksheet I was working on was somehow locked. So I opened up a couple of the old worksheets and dictated into every one of them.
In any case, I think I understand now -- any time I have trouble dictating into Excel 2003, I just jump over here and get on my bitch box. Works every time so far
Sorry that I have to retract my complaint
Thanks for taking the time.
Bruce
PS: Just for giggles I went back to my most recent session where dictation failed and pulled up this sample:
20:24:29 File F:\NatSpeak9\Program\dgnexcel.dll: Version 9.10.000.141
20:24:29 Microsoft Excel support started.
20:24:29 (MyCmds) MyCommands initialized for "Bruce Cyr" speaker
20:24:29 (MyCmds) MyCommands snap-shot generated
20:24:29 NaturalText v.9.10.000.141 compatibility module launched.
20:24:35 Info: multimedia device ID 5 name
20:26:28 waitforInputIdle returned 0 after 0 msec. FGnd took 0
20:26:28 Info: using tokenization, non-empty spoken form found
20:26:28 Warning: no words back from adaptationTest
21:09:40 (c:\work\rh4\natsdk\activex\vmenu.cpp,564) : m_pIVCmdMenu->Activate() returned unexpected value SRERR_INVALIDWINDOW (0x8004000f).
21:09:40
21:09:40 In ComCallFailed(), LastErrorGet produced no additional information.
21:09:40 Exception thrown (c:\work\rh4\shared\comcalls.cpp, 150).
21:09:40
21:11:25 (c:\work\rh4\natsdk\activex\vmenu.cpp,564) : m_pIVCmdMenu->Activate() returned unexpected value SRERR_INVALIDWINDOW (0x8004000f).
21:11:25
21:11:25 In ComCallFailed(), LastErrorGet produced no additional information.
21:11:25 Exception thrown (c:\work\rh4\shared\comcalls.cpp, 150).
21:11:25
21:20:09 Microsoft Excel support finished.
SFAIK, nothing has changed with respect to my Microsoft Office 2003 and DNS Pro 9.1 installations from that session to this one.
Bruce, Thank you for the
Bruce,
Thank you for the Dragon log. The section that you display in your post points to the source of the problem. Apparently any time that you were unable to dictate in Microsoft Excel DNS was unable to load the Excel ActiveX control. While this ActiveX control does not provide FULL Select-and-Say compatibility throughout the entire spreadsheet at any time, it does provide support for dictating into cells, as well as supporting the Excel Natural Language Commands. The reason that I say it doesn't provide full Select-and-Say support is simply because full Select-and-Say support would allow you to use Select-and-Say and/or Select-and-Correct anywhere within the spreadsheet. For example, once you have entered text into a cell and you move to another cell, you no longer have Select-and-Say for the previous cell. However, as long as you remain in that cell, any text that you dictate, even if you pause, is selectable and correctable. In essence, you have Select-and-Say to the extent that you remain in a cell into which you are currently dictating and as long as you don't move to another cell. In other words, this is a kind of modified Select-and-Say capability that treats all dictation into a cell in the same manner that you dictate into a fully Select-and-Say enabled text editor. It treats each cell individually as if it were its own text editor. You kind of have to play with what you can and can't do to see how far the Select-and-Say capability in Excel goes, but it does provide a modicum of support for this feature.
As regards why you could not dictate into an Excel spreadsheet, the Dragon log indicates that DNS attempted to load the Excel ActiveX control, but Windows fail to load it. Loading ActiveX controls is called a "Remote Procedure Call." You have seen this in other posts as "RPC_Server Unavailable." What happens is that the RPC server either has not been started or is inaccessible because Windoze burped and failed to launch it or cannot access it. This server controls the loading of ActiveX controls. If you're running Windows XP Professional or Windows Vista, you can go always go to the Administrative Tools and look under local services for the RPC server. There are 2 entries. All you have to do is stop them and restart them. However, if you do this be sure to restart them in automatic mode vs. manual mode. Otherwise, they may fail to start the next time around. Regardless, if the RPC server stops functioning or is inaccessible for any reason, you will not be able to load ActiveX controls that load on-the-fly as they do in DNS. On the other side of the coin, don't go looking for the path that is specified in the error (Exception thrown entries). This is a temporary folder and you will not find it because it is emptied (cleared) once the error reporting is completed. The results are stored in the temporary files folder, but they are stored in a manner that is not viewable.
So, blame Windoze for this one.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but, I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Stuck with same problem windows media center xp
Wow, I have to say that I am impressed at how poorly DNS works with Excel given this scenario, which I seem to be experiencing as well.
I have XP Media Center and Excel 2003.
I do not have the ability to start and stop the rpc in my admin section (no idea why and I barely understand what it is)
I have a suspicion that restarting my computer may help achieve a similar goal, but my disappointment at the functionality here is pretty high.
Thanks for the explanation of the complexity of the problem Chuck. From my own perspective, I'd have to say that this Windoze Problem actually feels a lot more like false advertising from DNS.
Claiming that DNS works with excel when it does not is a good bit misleading imho.
At this point, I'm not sure where I go from here to get this to actually work.
Restarting computer worked in this situation for me
If getting into the administrative section is something that you are uncomfortable with, and or you have the option and time to reboot your computer, that did solve the problem for me.
On the Caesarian principle
On the Caesarian principle that "discretion is the better part of valor", I said nothing more on this topic -- IOW, I was protecting my own posterior.
In fact, the reason the RPC server was not running is that in my role as a pseudo-power user I had pared my Services to what I considered a bare minimum, including this one. I also caused major consternation on a completely different forum/issue because I had stopped something having to do with image acquisition, making my machine refuse to run a scanner -- a gaffe that stumped two Chuck-like figures in that area!
If you don't mess with your Services, this is unlikely to bother you.
To check, bring up Administrative Tools | Services, maximize the window, click on Standard view at the bottom, drag the divider as far to the left as you can, expand the Name and Description columns as much as you can for convenience, and also make sure the Name field is sorted.
Then find Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Service and confirm that its Status is "Started" and Startup Type is "Automatic". If one or the other isn't, right click on it and fix either/both in the ensuing dialog box.
But first -- check your dragon.log to make sure that's the problem.
HTH,
Bruce
Loading ActiveX controls
Uh, no it's not...
wouldn't know myself
But, That might explain why it didn't work when I tried it.
Its very confusing when you
Its very confusing when you piggyback onto a topic!
First, I'm not sure exactly what your last comment means/refers to.
Secondly, and more importantly, you've forfeited your best chance of solving your problem by not telling us exactly what your symptoms are! Why not help yourself by starting a new thread describing the DNS/Excel problems you're experiencing?
Bruce
Bruce, My reply and all
Bruce,
My reply and all comments on this thread were directly relevant to the topic.
My last reply to which you replied, was in response to the comment that restarting the RPC gets activeX going again(as you suggested many months ago in this thread) is not correct.
I do not know if you were correct or incorrect and so I said as much in my reply. I'd quote the responses that you provided before or that were given by the other commentor, but this site does not enable me to view the thread, while I write a comment.
As to my own symptoms, they were the same symptoms as originally described in this thread, which is why I replied here as opposed to starting a new and redundant thread on the same topic.
I did not intend to presume help from anyone. I'll take help when and where I can get it and when the price I'm paying is zero, well beggers can't be choosers. That said there is value exchanged on a website when a topic is discussed out in all of its nuances. In fact, that is the reason why I was able to find this thread, page and site in the first place. It discussed the dns / excel problem enough to take it fairly far up the SERPs on the topic. Further discussion will help that and when that discussion isolates more solutions, it will help the residual visitors even more.
Best Regards,
Brett
E-X-C-U-S-E me! Bruce
E-X-C-U-S-E me!
Bruce
No problem, you seemed to be
No problem, you seemed to be the one upset with my response and participation in the conversation.
brettbum wrote: No problem,
No problem, you seemed to be the one upset with my response and participation in the conversation.
Yah, I'm concerned that the occasional future user with a problem using DNS in Excel will be misled by your facile mischaracterization of that relationship and this topic.
Generally DNS appears to be usefully compatible with Excel. My description of how much trouble I went through to make them incompatible is testament to this healthy relationship.
I'm also concerned that this hypothetical future user will get the wrong message from your macho rhetorical stance vis-a-vis this forum. The best way to get help is to engage the diagnostic process enthusiastically and openly.
So if I'm less upset that you aren't giving yourself a fair shot at the help which I think you need notwithstanding your protestations, its because you haven't demonstrated that you have such a problem, nor that its important to you.
To say you have identical symptoms is not convincing -- unless its a canned problem, I've found that the single most important factor in diagnosing someone's SR problems is that user's description of the problem. When the user describes what's wrong, that often points to a solution, or at least to further queries to elicit more information.
The fact that Chuck's diagnosis and my response didn't suffice to solve your problem means that you don't have the same problem -- the similarity is as superficial as your approach.
Bruce
mdl wrote: Loading
Uh, no it's not...
Uh, yes it is if the ActiveX controls are COM programs, which all DNS ActiveX controls are. I would suggest you go back in do some research on what RPC is, when it was first discussed technically, and what it can do on local and remote systems relative to controlling the access to COM programs.
DNS makes considerable use of the RPC server. On the other hand, manually going in and changing the settings for the RPC server and the RPC locator will not alter the problem.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -- Aldous Huxley
Chuck Runquist wrote: On
On the other hand, manually going in and changing the settings for the RPC server and the RPC locator will not alter the problem.
Oh oh! I don't know what the means, but the steps I described above fixed my problem. I suppose I could try to reproduce it in case of further question, but it sounds like an academic exercise at this point.
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: Oh oh! I
Oh oh! I don't know what the means, but the steps I described above fixed my problem. I suppose I could try to reproduce it in case of further question, but it sounds like an academic exercise at this point.
Bruce
Bruce,
Sometimes restarting the RPC server can fix the problem if the problem is not due to a corrupted user file. Under this condition, restarting the RPC server just simply clears everything out (i.e., same as doing a reset). I generally don't recommend it to the average user because in most cases the cause is a corrupted user profile, in which case restarting the RPC server won't do any good.
However, if it fixed your problem then that was a good thing. Restarting the RPC server doesn't hurt anything, he just simply doesn't help in most cases, except perhaps in yours.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee - that will do them in. - Bradley's Bromide