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DNS8 and my sub-functional ThinkPad
Submitted by mattsoy on Fri, 02/16/2007 - 22:28.
In a previous post I requested input on ongoing problems I'm having with DNS8 Pro on a T40 ThinkPad (1.4 GHz, 768 MB of RAM, Windows XP). Martin suggested I check the system properties panel to see what speed my computer was really functioning at, and (surprise!) last night it read only 598 MHz. But I don't think that explains my problems:
The consensus seems to be that my defrag and disk cleanup had connection to the deterioration in my SR function which immediately followed it (post hoc, non propter hoc), but speech functions which had been working perfectly for years suddenly didn't.
Ordinary dictation on the DragonPad, no problem, even with fairly sophisticated vocabulary. But simple commands like "delete forward...x characters, words, paragraph" sometimes produce no result. Frequently the simple "type Sierra" will produce no "s" -- and in fact many of my punctuation and simple character commands no longer routinely work. (But sometimes when I repeat the command five times, finally it works!)
SR no longer works at all in some programs other than Microsoft Windows, for example Across Lite in which I used to do the daily NYT crossword. Or in some online situations.
I've tried creating new reinstalling Dragon completely, creating new user names, doing new training, nothing seems to help. And it doesn't seem to matter what microphone I'm using. Am considering that perhaps my hard drive is just worn/wearing out and that I should look into a new laptop.
Also am wondering whether simply upgrading to Dragon 9 might help.
Any new ideas?
-- mattsoy
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mattsoy wrote: In a
In a previous post I requested input on ongoing problems I'm having with DNS8 Pro on a T40 ThinkPad (1.4 GHz, 768 MB of RAM, Windows XP). Martin suggested I check the system properties panel to see what speed my computer was really functioning at, and (surprise!) last night it read only 598 MHz. But I don't think that explains my problems:
The consensus seems to be that my defrag and disk cleanup had connection to the deterioration in my SR function which immediately followed it (post hoc, non propter hoc), but speech functions which had been working perfectly for years suddenly didn't.
Ordinary dictation on the DragonPad, no problem, even with fairly sophisticated vocabulary. But simple commands like "delete forward...x characters, words, paragraph" sometimes produce no result. Frequently the simple "type Sierra" will produce no "s" -- and in fact many of my punctuation and simple character commands no longer routinely work. (But sometimes when I repeat the command five times, finally it works!)
SR no longer works at all in some programs other than Microsoft Windows, for example Across Lite in which I used to do the daily NYT crossword. Or in some online situations.
I've tried creating new reinstalling Dragon completely, creating new user names, doing new training, nothing seems to help. And it doesn't seem to matter what microphone I'm using. Am considering that perhaps my hard drive is just worn/wearing out and that I should look into a new laptop.
Also am wondering whether simply upgrading to Dragon 9 might help.
Any new ideas?
-- mattsoy
I doubt seriously that defrag is the ultimate root source of this problem. Defrag programs are so well developed and reliable today that it is highly unlikely that they would cause this kind of a problem with DNS. I have never had any problems defragging my drives and I use Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier, which defrag on-the-fly in the background all day long (24/7).
There is a power setting on some laptops which cut the CPU speed and half as a power conservation feature/function. If this setting is enabled, it doesn't matter whether you're running on battery power or AC power, your CPU speed is cut in half. Perhaps others who have made the appropriate adjustment can give you a more specific step-by-step procedure. However, it should be fairly obvious if you go into the power settings on your laptop, locate this feature and disable it. Once you do, your laptop should function at the full 1.60 GHz. I suspect that this is part of your problem, but not all of it.
Lastly, the fact that you have not been successful in resolving the problem by virtue of running a repair or reinstall indicates that it is probably time to perform major surgery. Therefore, try the following:
1. Before you do anything, export your user files to another location on the hard drive, to a flashpoint thumb drive, or to another drive (if available). Keep in mind that if you're going to use a flash drive/thumb drive, be sure that it is at least 512 MB. Your user files can be extremely large (i.e., upwards of 256 MB). You can also burn a copy of your user folder to a CD or DVD writable drive. Whatever method you use, be sure to get your user folder copied away from its current location in the C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking9\Users.
2. Go to Add or Remove Programs in the Windows Control Panel and uninstall DNS 8. This is important so that you preserve your activations. If you run #3 below without uninstalling DNS using this method first, you will lose one activation. The DNS8remove utility does not go to the activation server and restore your activation status to preinstall. If you have exported your user files, you can say no to saving such. However, be advised that the DNS8remove utility will wipe out your users, so saving them for reinstall using the Add or Remove Programs to uninstall DNS 8 function won't help you much.
3. Go to the Nuance website knowledge base and locate the download for DNS8remove.exe. (the Dragon NaturallySpeaking remover utility for DNS8) Run this utility. Keep in mind, that this utility removes everything related to DNS from your system. All registry entries, all users, and all program files. Everything! So, be sure to export your users first because there are no options to save your users with this utility. However, it does clean DNS completely off your system. It doesn't matter that you have already removed DNS 8 using the Add or Remove Programs. This utility removes anything left behind because the Add or Remove Programs doesn't always remove everything, which is why your uninstall reinstall likely wasn't working to resolve the problem.
4. Reinstall DNS 8 and then run the update patch to bring your DNS up to 8.1. Or, if you have a full 8.1 install disk (CD), running the patch is obviously unnecessary.
5. Restore your users.
See if this rectifies the problem. My suspicion is that one or more of the Select-and-Say registry entries got bounced for some reason. This should restore your DNS 8 full functionality correcting the power settings should give you much better performance.
Let us know what happens.
Chuck Runquist
Former DNS SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but, I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Chuck, Thanks for the
Chuck,
Thanks for the thorough reply. I regret the typo I missed: indeed I recognize that defrag was not the source of my problems. Your approach sounds reasonable, but why not replace my defective program with DNS 9 instead of just restoring 8?
My previous several DNS installations have been upgrades. If I buy the software as if I were a first-time user (from the site at the top of this page?) wouldn't any potential underlying problem be obviated?
Is there a cost difference between what new users and upgraders pay? And is there any reason why I need Professional instead of Preferred? I should know the answer to these questions, but don't.
I should know the difference between the two, but Nuance isn't very specific.
-- Matthew S
mattsoy wrote: Is there a
Is there a cost difference between what new users and upgraders pay?
From what I understand, there's a SUBSTANTIAL cost difference between a new copy of Pro and an upgrade. I'd do the upgrade and stay with Pro if it were me.
You definitely want
You definitely want to go with the upgrade because it's much less expensive and you no longer have to deal with the usual upgrade/hybrid nightmares. The NaturallySpeaking Pro 9 Upgrade works like Microsoft upgrades. You can completely uninstall your previous copy of NaturallySpeaking and then install a full copy, from the Pro 9 upgrade CD. The Pro 9 upgrade CD will look for a previous copy and when it doesn't find it, the installation will prompt you for your Pro 8 CD which it will examine for about 30 seconds (but not install) and then ask you for your Pro 9 upgrade CD again. It will then continue to install a full copy of Pro 9.
If you choose to purchase from our company you will additionally receive a laser color copy of our step-by-step installation guide which is full of JPEG's outlining every step of the way, including how to upgrade your previous vocabulary and commands. We also include virtual on-site technical support.
KnowBrainer Support Staff - Lunis Orcutt
Dictated with DNS 9, KnowBrainer and UniVoice
To see additional responses visit the KnowBrainer Technical Support Forum
Luis, Thanks for the useful
Luis,
Thanks for the useful input. So the "upgrade" can provide full installation, it just needs evidence that I own a previous version, and that gives me a price break? What is the cost of the DNS9 Pro upgrade? Can you tell me exactly what the difference is between Preferred and Professional? If I follow your advice, should I simply delete my current user files (which may be defective) or retain them?
-- MattSoy
All you have to do is
All you have to do is click on the blue bold text, in any of our postings, to go directly to the source. Everything you see in blue is a hyperlink. If you click on Lunis Orcutt it generates an e-mail in your default e-mail program. If you click on DNS 9, KnowBrainer, and UniVoice it takes you to those specific products on our website and the KnowBrainer Technical Support Forum is a link to our support forum.
There are a lot of difference between the $99 Preferred 9 Upgrade and the $290 NaturallySpeaking Pro 9 Upgrade but if you would like to see a complete list of the differences between the 2 products click the Nuance Comparison Matrix hyperlink. However if you are just looking for the short version… Pro 9 includes an Advanced-Scripting Command Browser. Preferred 9 is only capable of boilerplate text macros unless you add KnowBrainer 2006. Pro 9 includes an industrial-strength Vocabulary Builder, multiple vocabularies, roaming user profile capability and network support. 1 of the main reasons that we recommend you purchase the Pro 9 upgrade is because you already have Pro 8. It's the In for a penny, in for a pound adage. You already paid a premium price for Pro 8 and upgrading to Preferred 9 would be equivalent to taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
Although we recommend uninstalling your previous NaturallySpeaking software, we don't recommend uninstalling your previous user files. We refer to this as plan B. There are parts of your previous user files that are upgradeable; specifically your vocabulary and commands. Of course if you upgrade to Preferred, you will not be able to upgrade your commands. All of this information is covered in our previously mentioned installation guide which we include with every copy of NaturallySpeaking we sell.
KnowBrainer Support Staff - Lunis Orcutt
Dictated with DNS 9, KnowBrainer and UniVoice
To see additional responses visit the KnowBrainer Technical Support Phorum
.
mattsoy wrote: Luis, Thanks
Luis,
Thanks for the useful input. So the "upgrade" can provide full installation, it just needs evidence that I own a previous version, and that gives me a price break? What is the cost of the DNS9 Pro upgrade? Can you tell me exactly what the difference is between Preferred and Professional? If I follow your advice, should I simply delete my current user files (which may be defective) or retain them?
-- MattSoy
You need to keep a couple of things in mind with regard to the system requirements for DNS 9.
1. DNS 9.0 incorporates new algorithms that generally result in slower performance on slower systems. This is due in part to the fact that DNS 9 now adds a quadgram Language Model, but most importantly it is due to the fact that DNS 9 incorporates a longer (timer – speed vs. accuracy) search algorithm because of this quadgram model.
2. DNS 9 Pro is more resource intensive because of #1. Where as DNS 8 used approximately 140 MB of RAM, DNS 9 uses upwards of 200 MB. Since your system only has 768 MB of RAM, it is highly likely that you will see significant swap out's to the Windows pagefile even if you only have DNS in DragonPad running. Keep in mind that Windows consumes anywhere from 1 half to 2 thirds of your physical RAM for its own use. That doesn't leave you much RAM left for running applications. If you're going to upgrade to DNS 9 Pro, I have 2 suggestions: (1) wait for DNS 9.5 Pro and get your current system up to speed (full processor speed) first with DNS 8, and (2) upgrade your RAM to at least 1 GB. If you don't upgrade your RAM you're going to suffer a significant performance hit with DNS 9.
3. Make sure that you're running at least at 1.4 GHz when your system is booted up. DNS 9 will not install if your system CPU speed falls below 1 GHz. With DNS 9 you do need all the speed you can get anyway.
4. Even if you get all of your system components and configurations properly set up and add enough RAM to bring you up to 1 GB, the new algorithms in DNS 9 are going to limit where you can place the speed vs. accuracy slider to let best 25%. Your CPU will not handle speed vs. accuracy set higher than the 1 quarter mark. Even with SP 1 so that you bring your DNS 9.0 up to DNS 9.1, you're not going to be able to move the speed vs. accuracy slider much more than somewhere between 25% and 50% (1 quarter to 1 half of the way toward accuracy.
5. It is very likely that you will not get much better performance out of DNS 9.5 Preferred.
As long as you go into upgrading to DNS 9.x fully aware of the limitations that your system is going to impose on speed, performance, and accuracy on your current ThinkPad laptop, then you won't go in blind. And, if you consider upgrading your laptop, be sure that you select one that has a Core2 Duo processor and it leased 2 GB of RAM. DNS 9 screams on these machines. Also, make sure that you have sufficient disk space. DNS 9 requires a minimum of 1 GB of hard drive space.
Chuck Runquist
Former DNS SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
"We are all victims of mythology in one way or another. We are the inheritors, and many times the propagators, of a desire to believe what we want to believe, regardless of whether or not it is true." -- J.V. Stewart