"Cargo Cult Programming" vs. "Cult Cargo Occlusions", or, "Wake U! Milwaukee."
Submitted by BruceCyr on Mon, 02/12/2007 - 05:04.
N.b.: I moved this discussion here because it has nothing to do with the thread whence it arose, and the OP seems to be suffering.
Scott W Said: (Submitted by ScottW on Sun, 02/11/2007 - 17:57.)
Bruce,
To my knowledge process explorer doesn't _export_ anything. I'm making a distinction between "export" and "display for interactive use".
If I want to do some ad hoc investigation of my system, then "display for interactive use" is the best option, and process explorer is exemplary for this.
On either hand, if I wish to share information about what's going on in my system with people who are not at my desk, then "export" is that feature than I am looking for, so I can email or copy/paste the information for others to look at.
"LoyalCustomer" asked 'how to "somehow" make a copy of the processes in the task manager and paste them here?'
In this case, windows powershell is the best option. Although take a few minutes in download and setup time, the time it takes to run the command
> ps | export-cvs proclist.csv
required is trivial. The only way I can think of doing it with process explorer would be to take screenshots.
>PS: I'm hourly finding new applications for the cult cargo concept!
Yes, it's a nice phrase. But with great phrases comes great responsibility - use it wisely Smiling
-- Scott W
Speech resources at SpeechWiki
Try QuickSwitch at Applied Recognition today
Scott,
Lets do this by the numbers:
1. Bring up Process Explorer
2. Click on "Help | About"
3. Verify you're using 10.21 like me (latest version of 5 minutes ago)
4. Click on "OK"
5. Click on "File | Save as"
6. Save the file
7. Start NotePad or some other editor
8. Input the file saved in Step 6 above
9. Does or doesn't that file essentially mirror the text you saw on the Process Explorer screen from which you saved it?
Oh, I know: The Catch-22 is that the cargo cult scorners don't consider "saving" to be a legitimate instantiation of "exporting": A-G-G-G-H-H (in lieu of more explicit argot). But what I'm talking about is printing out a list of running processes in order to get on with "loyal customer"'s problem.
BTW, if an experienced DNS vendor/problem solver says that the only correlate he knows of the symptoms described that is an interaction between background processes, how does that constitute "cargo cult programming"? To me, MS is a purveyor of "cargo cult programming", while Adobe is an exponent of "cargo cult software engineering" -- i.e., whatever MS says to do, Adobe does in spades. But I'm not a programmer, so I don't really know.
Bruce
Sidebar: Compare and contrast "cargo cult" and "cult cargo". IS the difference real, or is it dictational ephemera?
I've been educated.
I've been educated. Thanks.
The amusing thing, at least for me, is that while earlier in the day I'm sure my eyes scanned over the pixels of "Save as", I definitely didn't _see_ them.
>BTW, if an experienced DNS vendor/problem solver says that the only correlate he knows of the symptoms described that is an interaction between background processes, how does that constitute "cargo cult programming"?
Right now, I have 77 processes running, but only 4 main windows/applications running. That leaves 73 processes to consider. I'm not sure that's helpful to anyone.
If on the other hand, the advice came in the form of
"I've seen this problem when people run programs X, Y, or Z. Check to see if you're running these programs and if killing them resolves it"
You now have a clear and testable diagnosis. It's either right or wrong.
-- Scott W
Speech resources at SpeechWiki
Try QuickSwitch at Applied Recognition today
Well, it's clear you've been
Well, it's clear you've been "educated", but I think you've done well by whatever went down long before we met!.
While your preference for "true and testable hypotheses" is admirable, it amounts to saying "I want to the world structured so that problems have 3 or 4 known solutions". That may be feasible for dictators, CEO's and cargo cult prophets some of the time, but for most of us the world doesn't arrange itself so neatly -- the noise is not just a nuisance, its an integral part of reality.
But this situation is not so dire as you suggest. Lets say you have the problem and a third of your processes are labeled Microsoft and another third are associated with programs you've been running since day one. That naturally focuses your attention to the remaining 25 or so.
Suppose that of those 25 you can identify a half-dozen that have been added most recently -- something that will be facilitated if you have some kind of StartupMonitor capability. That would give you something to focus on the initially.
The broader point is that once you have the information you can begin to dice and slice it in a more intelligent, heuristic manner. The very process of slicing and dicing will generate more information, some of which may actually point directly to a solution or, more likely, lead to further investigation. If you consider the history and background that "loyal customer" cited, you realize that almost any kind of help is better than none at all, and if the problem is yours you might be willing to slog through the most promising combinatorial possibilities in search of a solution.
Of course this assertion means that "loyal customer" may be involved in a lengthy, iterative debugging process, which can be quite frustrating, but which seems to be the only course open to him/her at this point. The only solace is that being the main actor in the process is itself empowering -- you can always go back and catch up on work later.
Bruce